The Russian Sanctions

[nivilla1982]

Cracks are already showing in the EU's Russia response

‘The EU is united and acting fast,’ said Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, as she condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. A new package of sanctions, swiftly agreed upon by EU member states, appeared to show von der Leyen was right. Yet in reality, the measures were...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[BrianV]

Good idea for a thread, pity about the daft comments.

It's very obvious that 'the West' is coordinating its response; the big hit on day one coming from Germany and its halting of the pipeline (probably a bit of 'conscience money' in there too, after the fiasco of the 5000 helmets).

More will follow; I don't know, but I guess that every few days or so - maybe less - something else significant will be announced. Plus, every day, more materiel is arriving in Ukraine, free of charge, instructors included where necessary. A Russian helicopter is worth about £20m, a typical fighter about £40m, a tank about £2m - we have sent and can keep on sending anti-tank missiles, NLAWs, which cost a bit over £20k a time. The US is and can do the same with Javelin at about £60k a throw, and with Stinger at a bit more.

Of course not all missiles will hit, but there are already three times as many ATMs in Ukraine as the Russians can deploy tanks, and four times as many SAMs as they can deploy aircraft - and the numbers of them, and the numbers of people trained on them are increasing daily. But even if only 10% hit, that's about a third of his forces gone just with what's there now. All this and much more will just keep pouring in.

It won't / can't stop a Russian invasion in its first rush; but it can slow it and eventually stop it in a way that wouldn't have been possible even just a few months ago. And it will certainly mean that any hopes Vlad has of actually holding territory away from the Russian border, could only now be realised at a truly horrific cost in monetary and human terms to Russia. He can't afford either and hope to survive.

(Just as a bit of added interest, taking Ukraine with the ~200k he has around it is feasible, but conventional wisdom tells us that he'd need at least three times as many for even a hope of a successful occupation, and double that to be sure of it - Russia currently has an army of 600k, about a third of which are conscripts)

For those mocking the sanctions approach, give us the figures on what Russia has had frozen today, then tell us it's irrelevant.

Think you might find all these pointless sanctions achieve is closer ties between Russia & China, you may also find that if he is serious about taking Ukraine there will be just as many waving welcome flags as firing rifles!

 

[its yourself]

There won't be welcome flags. Don't worry though the Russians will fake some for the tankies. Probably already filmed them.

 

[pellow]

Think you might find all these pointless sanctions achieve is closer ties between Russia & China, you may also find that if he is serious about taking Ukraine there will be just as many waving welcome flags as firing rifles!

Where do you get the idea of a Russian welcome? There might be some Russians imported for a photo op.

I can tell you if Putin invades he will not be able to control the population

 

[BrianV]

Where do you get the idea of a Russian welcome? There might be some Russians imported for a photo op.

I can tell you if Putin invades he will not be able to control the population

You've been listening to too much Tory Central office rubbish, the West have already made it very clear that NATO or it's allies will not confront the Russians on Ukrainian soil & come to their help.
Now if you are a Ukrainian general, corporal or soldier knowing this & that in the end if the Russians attack & will win you have but two choices, you can kill as many Russians as possible, blow your country to smithereens & likely end up in Siberia with your family or you can let them come in & carry on much as before, which would you choose?
As the Afghans realised once you know you are now on your lonesome & with no help you will ultimately lose no mater how many fancy weapons you may have been given, as they say "resistance is futile"!

 

[ollie989898]

Shouldn't be allowed to donate money to political parties and definitely not if you are a foreign national.

 

[its yourself]

You've been listening to too much Tory Central office rubbish, the West have already made it very clear that NATO or it's allies will not confront the Russians on Ukrainian soil & come to their help.
Now if you are a Ukrainian general, corporal or soldier knowing this & that in the end if the Russians attack & will win you have but two choices, you can kill as many Russians as possible, blow your country to smithereens & likely end up in Siberia with your family or you can let them, come in & carry on much as before, which would you choose?
As the Afghans realised once you know you are now on your lonesome & will no help you will ultimately lose no mater how many fancy weapons you may have been given, as they say "resistance is futile"!

Tankie. Siberia is certain either way. Russian (Chechen actually) national guard troops are already waiting to start the deportations.

 

[Vader]

No sh!t; my point remains, they won't get the walkover they could have had - and every day it will get harder.

We will see.
Either way, what's value of some lost tanks versus the land he going to gain...?

 

[robs1]

Maybe Putin isn’t the only one who needs sanctions slapped on him….

Trump sides with Putin as Biden tries to stop a war
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/23/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-joe-biden/index.html

Did he actually say he wanted Putin to invade the Ukraine? I read the article and what he said was putin was clever by calling the force a " peace keeping " force, which he is, he claims he is there to "protect" people in what he calls the independent parts of Ukraine, of course we all know its rubbish but it's a very sly way of incorporating those areas without actually saying so, any fighting the Russians do will be claimed as peace keeping.

 

[Ashtree]

Did he actually say he wanted Putin to invade the Ukraine? I read the article and what he said was putin was clever by calling the force a " peace keeping " force, which he is, he claims he is there to "protect" people in what he calls the independent parts of Ukraine, of course we all know its rubbish but it's a very sly way of incorporating those areas without actually saying so, any fighting the Russians do will be claimed as peace keeping.

What he said was unworthy of an ex POTUS. But then again, in the context of all his unworthy stuff, it’s probably not important.

 

[its yourself]

We will see.
Either way, what's value of some lost tanks versus the land he going to gain...?

No concern for the conscript crew or the Ukrainian infantry?

 

[pellow]

You've been listening to too much Tory Central office rubbish, the West have already made it very clear that NATO or it's allies will not confront the Russians on Ukrainian soil & come to their help.
Now if you are a Ukrainian general, corporal or soldier knowing this & that in the end if the Russians attack & will win you have but two choices, you can kill as many Russians as possible, blow your country to smithereens & likely end up in Siberia with your family or you can let them come in & carry on much as before, which would you choose?
As the Afghans realised once you know you are now on your lonesome & with no help you will ultimately lose no mater how many fancy weapons you may have been given, as they say "resistance is futile"!

I lived in Ukraine for 3 out of the last 10 years, I can tell you from personal experience Russians will not be welcomed

 

[czechmate]

I lived in Ukraine for 3 out of the last 10 years, I can tell you from personal experience Russians will not be welcomed

Now, I’m only going by the news... does that not depend on which bit of the Ukraine?

 

[pellow]

Now, I’m only going by the news... does that not depend on which bit of the Ukraine?

Its probably more accurate to ask about the age of the Ukrainian, the younger ones want to move away from Russia, everyone knows that Russia has been picking Ukraines pocket for 30 years, theyoung are idealistic enough to think they can do something about it.

The west of Ukraine will definitely fight harder than the east but to say people will welcome Russia is totally incorrect

 

[Vader]

No concern for the conscript crew or the Ukrainian infantry?

Putin won't have.
Few 1000 dead in exchange for massive area of land. He probably happy with that deal.

 

[Henarar]

Got to look after his mates, Londongrad needs them.
View attachment 1018582

More lies?

 

[BrianV]

Its probably more accurate to ask about the age of the Ukrainian, the younger ones want to move away from Russia, everyone knows that Russia has been picking Ukraines pocket for 30 years, theyoung are idealistic enough to think they can do something about it.

The west of Ukraine will definitely fight harder than the east but to say people will welcome Russia is totally incorrect

If Putin cuts across Ukraine near the West's border effectively encircling Ukraine then the games up & Ukraines people will either leave or accept it, fighting a terror campaign in your own country never ends well!

 

[robs1]

What he said was unworthy of an ex POTUS. But then again, in the context of all his unworthy stuff, it’s probably not important.

Did you actually hear it from his mouth, if it as reported then it's wrong, however CNN aren't unknown for twisting words, Putin has been clever by doing what he has and twisting it in the way he has .
The world needs to be very clear on what they will do if he goes into the rest of the Ukraine , destroy every tank, plane truck etc. I suspect he will see the response and If it's no harsher than so far he will move on

 

[Danllan]

Think you might find all these pointless sanctions achieve is closer ties between Russia & China, you may also find that if he is serious about taking Ukraine there will be just as many waving welcome flags as firing rifles!

You clearly haven't been paying attention to Ukrainian social and other media; or maybe you have and are just ignoring it because it doesn't confirm your opinions. As for closer ties between Putin's Russia and China, as dictatorships they already scratch eachother's backs, but Russians loath and fear China - exactly what Putin doesn't want is for China to have even more influence - he's painted himself into a corner, you just don't want to see it.

We will see.
Either way, what's value of some lost tanks versus the land he going to gain...?

What's the 'value' of lost tanks and aircraft during a military campaign...? Hmm...

 

[BrianV]

You clearly haven't been paying attention to Ukrainian social and other media; or maybe you have and are just ignoring it because it doesn't confirm your opinions. As for closer ties between Putin's Russia and China, as dictatorships they already scratch eachother's backs, but Russians loath and fear China - exactly what Putin doesn't want is for China to have even more influence - he's painted himself into a corner, you just don't want to see it.


What's the 'value' of lost tanks and aircraft during a military campaign...? Hmm...

You could just as easily say the West loathes Russia but that does not stop it doing serious business with it, Russia would just as happily trade with China as the West, I think you might find social media means very little in the real world!
As for losing tanks, it would be a brave Ukrainian who blew up the first one, the West's strategy of trying to be little Putin is a sure fire recipe for the opposite to come about.