The shame of the English

[Highland Mule]

The SNP want to deny democracy in the UK ..

Im not an SNP supporter (far from it), but don’t understand what you’re implying from this. Can you explain?

 

[Danllan]

Well, my my...What a lot of generalizations and assumptions. Where shall I start? The middle seems reasonable.

I (and I am sure I am not alone in having done so) quoted Kipling a few weeks ago. Let's start with that: 'what does he know of England, who only England knows' was directed at little Englanders with no experience of nor interest in other countries or cultures. I completed my degree in England and the Soviet Union. My day job for the past several decades has been conducted ca. 85% in, on average 3 and up to 7 different European countries. I speak 8 European languages (including English). My academic work (now limited) takes place here and with EU academic institutions. (Having said that I have only once, and then only briefly, travelled farther afield; that saddens me because travel and meeting people from other cultures is what broadens the mind.

I see no mileage in comparing past sins of any country; generations change, thankfully. But my point has always been that (for any number of reasons) ON THE WHOLE Britain, the UK but perhaps especially England has retained an overarching sense of exceptionalism and the sense that 'we have nothing to learn from them'. As always such generalizations (and they are my opinion - but that is exactly what WD asked me to state) are unfair since we are all individuals but, this really, really stands out and has done so for decades.

Next, I don't know on what basis you call me a liar or a prig (but sticks and stones etc.) Nor do I see how it is hypocritical - I do not ignore bad behaviour (my own included), prejudice, historical crimes etc. in others but I was not asked to do here.

Finally (there would be more but I can't be arsed anymore) I am not a liberal (nor a Liberal) and I do not hate myself. I do not even hate the UK (I am incredibly saddened by what it is becoming though). I do always vote. I do go on marches when needed.

Oh...and in passing...I only listed my languages as an example of 'knowing more than England'. I did not include knowledge of Latin and certainly would see no need to pepper my mosts with witty aphorisms in Latin.

Over to you, though I doubt whether I shall continue this delightful conversation.

A pretty decent reply, but I think that your earlier posts betray you; you do play up and focus on what you see as the worst of this country, its past and its actions, while ignoring those of the countries over in Europe - it's that which I see as hypocritical, the omission of balance or rational comparison.

The principle of Kipling's words, that ignorance of the other leads to complacent views of the known and, it seems to me, that regardless of the languages you may speak well* this is something that applies to you. Of course, it is very hard on fora such as this to get a full 'view' of someone, and I may be entirely wrong - if so, sorry - but that is the impression I get.

Another apology for accusing you of being a L(l)iberal, if you truly aren't. But, again, that is how you come across, but it does leave you as a marching lefty who is 'saddened' by the UK...

See below in re' the Latin tags, but they are intended, more, to be apposite rather than witty, aphorism is fair though.

I'm happy to have this conversation continue or fall by the way, there are other subjects that beckon...


*I'll admit to only having competence in two modern European languages, one Asian, a couple of African (although fairly closely related) and one and a bit British. I've a fair bit more experience living and working further afield.

ffs. don't drop to his level. battles usually lost when you have to revert to latin phrases to try and act clever.

Wrong, again... I'll admit that I do like the Latin tags, but, I didn't use Latin on TFF until someone else tried to look smart by dropping some in - but chose poorly - and I replied in kind. Nevertheless, and I'm guessing you have good Welsh, there are some things that are much better in their original language than in translation. This is clear in Welsh to English and, from my own experience, from Japanese, French and Swahili to English as well - Latin is, forgive the pun, another classic example.

However, I've no 'personal' bone to pick with you lot, so I'll not use Latin again, unless necessary.

 

[stewart]

Well, my my...What a lot of generalizations and assumptions. Where shall I start? The middle seems reasonable.

I (and I am sure I am not alone in having done so) quoted Kipling a few weeks ago. Let's start with that: 'what does he know of England, who only England knows' was directed at little Englanders with no experience of nor interest in other countries or cultures. I completed my degree in England and the Soviet Union. My day job for the past several decades has been conducted ca. 85% in, on average 3 and up to 7 different European countries. I speak 8 European languages (including English). My academic work (now limited) takes place here and with EU academic institutions. (Having said that I have only once, and then only briefly, travelled farther afield; that saddens me because travel and meeting people from other cultures is what broadens the mind.

I see no mileage in comparing past sins of any country; generations change, thankfully. But my point has always been that (for any number of reasons) ON THE WHOLE Britain, the UK but perhaps especially England has retained an overarching sense of exceptionalism and the sense that 'we have nothing to learn from them'. As always such generalizations (and they are my opinion - but that is exactly what WD asked me to state) are unfair since we are all individuals but, this really, really stands out and has done so for decades.

Next, I don't know on what basis you call me a liar or a prig (but sticks and stones etc.) Nor do I see how it is hypocritical - I do not ignore bad behaviour (my own included), prejudice, historical crimes etc. in others but I was not asked to do here.

Finally (there would be more but I can't be arsed anymore) I am not a liberal (nor a Liberal) and I do not hate myself. I do not even hate the UK (I am incredibly saddened by what it is becoming though). I do always vote. I do go on marches when needed.

Oh...and in passing...I only listed my languages as an example of 'knowing more than England'. I did not include knowledge of Latin and certainly would see no need to pepper my mosts with witty aphorisms in Latin.

Over to you, though I doubt whether I shall continue this delightful conversation.

Great post.