The TFF Fungicide trial

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
There have been a few attempts by member on TFF in the past to draw comparisons from various fungicide programmes from simple product comparisons to extremes like using no product at all

A claim that has caught my eye recently is one from BASF - their advertising is claiming that there is a quote ">£20/ha profit benefit farmers can achieve from its Xemium range of products compared to Bixafen"

I like to test claims so in the words of Harry Hill

awww.replify.com_wp_content_uploads_2011_03_fight1.jpg



This is my plan

60ac acre field (the same one we held the TFF drill trial a couple of years back) - consistent yielding even soil type, currently a nice crop of zero-till Skyfall following a Peaola (pea and OSR mix) break crop. It's a light soil that can be drought prone, budget yield target is 8.5t/ha of gp 1 milling wheat however with enough moisture it can do 10-11t/ha as it did in the drill trial year. ultimately its very season (rain) dependant land though

Drilling date 29/9/2015

Seed rate 170kgs /ha aiming for 300plants / m2 established

Avadex applied at drilling, B'way star aplication planned ASAP

Split center of field into x 3 large scale equal "plots"

T0 (farm practice) will be the same for all plots this has already been done last week. This was 2L/ha of Nufarm Crafter (250 g/l (22.0% w/w) chlorothalonil and 90 g/l (7.92% w/w) tebuconazole) selected primarily on price / value (£5.20/L)

Plot 1 will get Adexar at T1 followed by Librax T2

Plot 2 will get Aviator at T1 followed by Aviator T2

Plot 3 will follow what ever farm practice myself and agronomist decide upon this year based on disease pressure and prices / value at the time - it may even also use some of the product on plot 1 or 2, or could be a budget ctl / teb type programme basically it will be whatever the rest of my wheat is getting this year which is currently an unknown and is ever changing


I will post pictures, costs and update the thread as the trial developes. Results will go through combine yield meters and be weighed off separately over our weighbridge so should be reasonably accurate. I know its not replicated etc but that's the way it is and how things are tested "real world" on farm IMO

Hope we all get something useful from this, The field is open for anyone who wants to drop in and take a look at anytime just as it was when we put the various drills up against each other, I think the drill trail worked well and hope this goes the same way


Right - who wants to predict the result !! ??
 
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Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
Well done Clive. I predict that the difference between the two won't be statistically significant!

If we end up with a high disease pressure year then that's when you might see something.

What rates are you thinking of applying?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Well done Clive. I predict that the difference between the two won't be statistically significant!

If we end up with a high disease pressure year then that's when you might see something.

What rates are you thinking of applying?
I think to be fair to the manufacturers of these products I should use rates as recommended ? what do you think I should do ? happy to be guided by TFF members to some extent

the difference needs to be statistically quite difference to validate the £20/ha claim that they seem pretty confident about in advertising
 

Iben

Member
Location
Fife
Have you spoken to BASF for their interpretation on how to get the benefit?

Presume they will have a recommended rate and a comparison rate.

Do they suggest any mixing partners or just straight product?

Good on you for doing this. Might see you at the Monaco GP in the BASF hospitality stand.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Have you spoken to BASF for their interpretation on how to get the benefit?

Presume they will have a recommended rate and a comparison rate.

Do they suggest any mixing partners or just straight product?

Good on you for doing this. Might see you at the Monaco GP in the BASF hospitality stand.
Yes BASF technical manager knows all about this and is going to visit the field and advise etc. They are up for the contest and stand by the claim which is good to see. I hope they will contribute to the thread as well

The results will be reported here good or bad for whoever ! (my agronomist included :ROFLMAO:)
 

Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
Personally I'd go for the same spend on both but your agronomist will be the best person to comment on what rates are needed based on variety, pressure etc.
 

Oat

Member
Location
Cheshire
Well done Clive. I predict that the difference between the two won't be statistically significant!

If we end up with a high disease pressure year then that's when you might see something.

What rates are you thinking of applying?
Even in the absence of high disease levels you may still see a benefit. Some fungicides can have a general crop health benefit (eg. azoxystrobin), this effect may be only very minor (compared to benefit of disease control) and may not necessarily translate to a significant yield benefit
 

rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
I belong to niab so already know the result :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: and no not telling;)
Will be interesting to see it on a larger scale per plot than they do though so more farm like, if the dry summer forecast comes about it wont pay I doubt but if wet it may well do
 

Farmer.sa

Member
Location
Essex
Prevention is better then cure, the results will depend on how the season pans out weather wise. I'm sure BASF are comparing against untreated which is an unfair comp to make
 

franklin

New Member
The Aviator will be better.

Are your product doses based on % of full label rate, or equivalent costs?


I'd rate the Aviator as a better T2 product than the Librax, pound for pound, and thats whay I think the prothioconazole-based product will outperform.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I belong to niab so already know the result :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: and no not telling;)
Will be interesting to see it on a larger scale per plot than they do though so more farm like, if the dry summer forecast comes about it wont pay I doubt but if wet it may well do
We all know trail plot results - the idea of this is to do it field scale with regular farm kit and operators - more "real world" IMO
 

Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
its all about margin though surely ? so spend doesn't matter................as long as you get it back and then some !!
So you're going to use full rates? Not very "real world" is it? I work to a budget on fungicides but will tweak it wither way according to conditions at the time. My T1 budget is £40/ha made up of Cortez + Vertisan + CTL but the rates will be altered up or down according to risk. Diego has an eyespot risk so will be Aviator + CTL.

What do you propose? Yes, it's all about margin but the optimum point in the response graph below is 1/2 dose...

upload_2016-4-20_14-9-11.jpeg

Source; AHDB
 

Hampton

Member
Location
Shropshire
I would think basf's claim is made on trials where the rival products are used at the recommended rates at the T2 timing where no other fungicides are applied before or after.
Personally I would rather see a rolls Royce programme v a @warksfarmer budget programme v a more common spend of say £30-35 per ac to see which is the most profitable. I just don't have the nerve to use a teb/bravo programme.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
So you're going to use full rates? Not very "real world" is it? I work to a budget on fungicides but will tweak it wither way according to conditions at the time. My T1 budget is £40/ha made up of Cortez + Vertisan + CTL but the rates will be altered up or down according to risk. Diego has an eyespot risk so will be Aviator + CTL.

What do you propose? Yes, it's all about margin but the optimum point in the response graph below is 1/2 dose...

View attachment 316228
Source; AHDB
not proposing anything firm yet - its all up for debate and discussion so please keep the suggestions coming before t1 application - if BASF are to prove their £20 extra profit claim then getting the rate right for the season will be essential - I will be guided by them then if the results are not there it's not down to me ! - they will surely be keen to hit the optimum and maybe as you say that recommendation will be half rate ??

I hope the tech guys from BASF will join this discussion, I've invited them to join TFF this morning !
 
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Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I would think basf's claim is made on trials where the rival products are used at the recommended rates at the T2 timing where no other fungicides are applied before or after.
Personally I would rather see a rolls Royce programme v a @warksfarmer budget programme v a more common spend of say £30-35 per ac to see which is the most profitable. I just don't have the nerve to use a teb/bravo programme.
I am going to throw in a 4th plot that does just that - a VERY budget plot to compare to the 3 others that as you say will be more "Rolls Royce"

how about a (small) no fungicide at all plot ? not sure im brave enough for 20ac of untreated though !!!
 

Iben

Member
Location
Fife
I would think basf's claim is made on trials where the rival products are used at the recommended rates at the T2 timing where no other fungicides are applied before or after.
Personally I would rather see a rolls Royce programme v a @warksfarmer budget programme v a more common spend of say £30-35 per ac to see which is the most profitable. I just don't have the nerve to use a teb/bravo programme.
Would it not be in your own interest to have your own trial? Take 10ac and give it a low input spend for three years. It won't go wrong in any disastrous way and could save you a big pile of cash in the future.

If it doesn't work, then no harm done and now you know.
 

woodylane

Member
Location
Lancashire
Would it not be in your own interest to have your own trial? Take 10ac and give it a low input spend for three years. It won't go wrong in any disastrous way and could save you a big pile of cash in the future.

If it doesn't work, then no harm done and now you know.
Trouble is if that 10ac is in the middle of the farm, will it not be protected to some extent by the surrounding fields having a decent fung program? It might be successful but when applied to a larger area it could be disastrous. Just a theory

Dan
 

Fuzzy

Member
Location
Bedfordshire
I am going to throw in a 4th plot that does just that - a VERY budget plot to compare to the 3 others that as you say will be more "Rolls Royce"

how about a (small) no fungicide at all plot ? not sure im brave enough for 20ac of untreated though !!!
I think the trial needs to include a NO fungicide plot so that you can see the total return on investment. This will also be a useful guide to how well your own program performs as well as the mega results from the 'can achieve' products.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think the trial needs to include a NO fungicide plot so that you can see the total return on investment. This will also be a useful guide to how well your own program performs as well as the mega results from the 'can achieve' products.
ok will include a (small area im not doing 20ac !) no fungicide plot - I say no fungicide but its had that t0 crafter already so "no more" fungicide plot maybe more accurate
 

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