The TFF Fungicide trial

Hampton

Member
Location
Shropshire
ok will include a (small area im not doing 20ac !) no fungicide plot - I say no fungicide but its had that t0 crafter already so "no more" fungicide plot maybe more accurate
I often do little trials, but they don't involve extremes, for example I wouldn't trust teb as the primary azole in a program, so would always steer away from a total budget programme.

With regards to the rolls Royce programme, a few years ago my spray driver mixed up vivid and bravo pand reversed the rates. He ended up spraying a field with bravo at 0.35 and vivid at a litre/ha. This applied 250g/l of pyracalastrobin or 3 times the recommended rate (hgca at time were advocating about 80g/ha. The greening was tremendous, we had to combine it last and the yields were very good, although it was a high yielding year.
Not something you would do on a farm scale, but it was an interesting exercise






Would it not be in your own interest to have your own trial? Take 10ac and give it a low input spend for three years. It won't go wrong in any disastrous way and could save you a big pile of cash in the future.

If it doesn't work, then no harm done and now you know.
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
No fungicide will be pointless as no-one would risk no insurance at all, and a plot in the middle of a treated field is not the same as untreated.

Best margin 1 Clive, 2 Bayer, 3 Basf .

T3 could be interesting though will it all get your T3 if you decide to go will one like, T0, or will Bayer and BASF be responsible for their own plot.

Will cost prices be what you can buy Aviator etc. for
 

7800

Member
Location
cambridgeshire
a no SDHI programme as I think the difference between basf and bayer programme will be very small.
I presume they get their £20/ha from analysis of lots of (selected?!?) trials and to repeat such a small margin gain as a one off will be unlikely.

While you are at it, add a nutrition programme/ no additional nutrition
 

shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
There have been a few attempts by member on TFF in the past to draw comparisons from various fungicide programmes from simple product comparisons to extremes like using no product at all

A claim that has caught my eye recently is one from BASF - their advertising is claiming that there is a quote ">£20/ha profit benefit farmers can achieve from its Xemium range of products compared to Bixafen"

I like to test claims so in the words of Harry Hill

View attachment 316132


This is my plan

60ac acre field (the same one we held the TFF drill trial a couple of years back) - consistent yielding even soil type, currently a nice crop of zero-till Skyfall following a Peaola (pea and OSR mix) break crop. It's a light soil that can be drought prone, budget yield target is 8.5t/ha of gp 1 milling wheat however with enough moisture it can do 10-11t/ha as it did in the drill trial year. ultimately its very season (rain) dependant land though

Drilling date 29/9/2015

Seed rate 170kgs /ha aiming for 300plants / m2 established

Avadex applied at drilling, B'way star aplication planned ASAP

Split center of field into x 3 large scale equal "plots"

T0 (farm practice) will be the same for all plots this has already been done last week. This was 2L/ha of Nufarm Crafter (250 g/l (22.0% w/w) chlorothalonil and 90 g/l (7.92% w/w) tebuconazole) selected primarily on price / value (£5.20/L)

Plot 1 will get Adexar at T1 followed by Librax T2

Plot 2 will get Aviator at T1 followed by Aviator T2

Plot 3 will follow what ever farm practice myself and agronomist decide upon this year based on disease pressure and prices / value at the time - it may even also use some of the product on plot 1 or 2, or could be a budget ctl / teb type programme basically it will be whatever the rest of my wheat is getting this year which is currently an unknown and is ever changing


I will post pictures, costs and update the thread as the trial developes. Results will go through combine yield meters and be weighed off separately over our weighbridge so should be reasonably accurate. I know its not replicated etc but that's the way it is and how things are tested "real world" on farm IMO

Hope we all get something useful from this, The field is open for anyone who wants to drop in and take a look at anytime just as it was when we put the various drills up against each other, I think the drill trail worked well and hope this goes the same way


Right - who wants to predict the result !! ??
Can you do a plot low CTL rate throughout every 10 days?
 

david

Member
Location
County Down
You want to include a Proline + Imtrex mix so then you could work out what the relevant SDHI is bringing to the party.

I would rate Prothio as the stronger triazole and fluxapyroxad as the stronger SDHI when comparing Aviator and Adexar
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
No fungicide will be pointless as no-one would risk no insurance at all, and a plot in the middle of a treated field is not the same as untreated.

Best margin 1 Clive, 2 Bayer, 3 Basf .

T3 could be interesting though will it all get your T3 if you decide to go will one like, T0, or will Bayer and BASF be responsible for their own plot.

Will cost prices be what you can buy Aviator etc. for
Tend to agree - leaving a unsprayed plot is not the same as leaving a field or your entire farm and I'm not sure anyone would ever do that in reality anyway ? I think a low spend plot using basic chemistry is far more relevant as the budget option really

Re T3 - not thought it through but I guess if its needed then we do as with T0 and treat all plots equally ?

Prices will be at whatever the best price I can get and all published here - I buy independently so they should be representative and competitive I hope, T0 price already mentioned in the opening post
 
without wishing to be a pedant.....oh alright being pedantic. This is not a trial merely an observation plot as you have no replicated plots and no control. Any results will only be relevant to that field in that year under those weather conditions. No (reputable) company could use them in any promotional way (including farmer meetings) as it would break virtually rule in the ASA rulebook. So with great (media) power comes great responsibility Clive. This trial will not prove/disprove the claim. There is a reason companies spend a great deal of time effort and money on statistically valid trials protocols however pointless and rigged farmers think they are. :scratchhead::brb::snaphappy::watching::banghead:
 
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Ok digging a bit deeper the claim is a straight dig at Aviator based on all the trials they could lay their hands on (or that showed them what they wanted to show). It's not a particularly clever claim and if I were Bayer I would be having a quiet word mano y mano about it as it is very subjective whether they have used enough and/or a valid data set for comparison. But maybe that's just me being pedantic and/or statistically accurate.:pompous::geek:
upload_2016-4-21_12-5-36.png
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
without wishing to be a pedant.....oh alright being pedantic. This is not a trial merely an observation plot as you have no replicated plots and no control. Any results will only be relevant to that field in that year under those weather conditions. No (reputable) company could use them in any promotional way (including farmer meetings) as it would break virtually rule in the ASA rulebook. So with great (media) power comes great responsibility Clive. This trial will not prove/disprove the claim. There is a reason companies spend a great deal of time effort and money on statistically valid trials protocols however pointless and rigged farmers think they are. :scratchhead::brb::snaphappy::watching::banghead:
Fair enough and as I posted in my opening post really this is NOT a replicated trial or in any way scientific, it's purely on farm observation using farm practice. Make of it whatever you wish

I've spoken to BASF and they are happy for me to test their claim in this rather public way, they are confident and on board with it and will visit periodically and advice rates etc. hopefully they will contribute to this thread as well (their tech manager is awaiting approval to do so !)
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
As it has already had Crafter, perhaps low cost could be multi doses of Crafter. Does seem very good value to me at that price.

CTL + teb every 14 days, rust etc now covered.

I did somethings similar a long time ago and got quite a growth reg effect from teb every 14 days 5 or 6 applications in total.
 
Fair enough and as I posted in my opening post really this is NOT a replicated trial or in any way scientific, it's purely on farm observation using farm practice. Make of it whatever you wish

I've spoken to BASF and they are happy for me to test their claim in this rather public way, they are confident and on board with it and will visit periodically and advice rates etc. hopefully they will contribute to this thread as well (their tech manager is awaiting approval to do so !)
No worries mate :) and I think it's great that farmers are looking seriously at the products. But I do think it is a bit questionable about BASF potentially getting you to publicise something which if they did it in the way you are would be in clear breach of all the current guidelines. Let's hope the results make for interesting reading ;)
 
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Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
No worries mate :) and I think it's great that farmers are looking seriously at the products. But I do think it is a bit questionable about BASF potentially getting you to publicise something which if they did it in the way you are would be in clear breach of all the current guidelines. Let's hope the results make them look complete berks ;)
Like the drill trial we did I'm not promoting or endorsing anything personally - I'm just facilitating this and will publish the information for anyone and everyone to draw their own conclusions from, the field is open for anyone to come see at anytime

It's certainly a gamble for any company to be in any kind of comparison but no one can really stop us as farmers reporting our honest observations and experience, its what the forum is all about IMO
 

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109: Monitor Farm takeover

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109: Monitor Farm takeover

Written by AHDB

The first episode in the Farm Excellence series of the AHDB podcast focuses on cereals & oilseeds. The Monitor Farm programme comprises a network of farmers from across the UK and Northern Ireland committed to driving innovation and best practice. They host regular meetings at their farms in which they discuss issues facing agriculture in their...
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