The TFF Fungicide trial

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
I think to be fair to the manufacturers of these products I should use rates as recommended ? what do you think I should do ? happy to be guided by TFF members to some extent

the difference needs to be statistically quite difference to validate the £20/ha claim that they seem pretty confident about in advertising
The important word is "can" if you repeat the same trial enough times under different conditions you will eventually get a result the marketing department will be happy with!! Who needs to hear about the trials that showed little or no benefit!
 

Hampton

Member
Location
Shropshire
I think to be fair to the manufacturers of these products I should use rates as recommended ? what do you think I should do ? happy to be guided by TFF members to some extent

the difference needs to be statistically quite difference to validate the £20/ha claim that they seem pretty confident about in advertising
I think in order to put basfs claim to the test, you need to use the dose rates that they used in their trial.
However for the trial to be fair to all manufacturers then I would say the advised ahdb or tag rates would be more farm applicable
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think in order to put basfs claim to the test, you need to use the dose rates that they used in their trial.
However for the trial to be fair to all manufacturers then I would say the advised ahdb or tag rates would be more farm applicable
BASF sent a technical manager out to look at the site end of last week - they are happy about this and confident / up for the challenge (which is good to see !) I'm going to follow the rates they recommend was suggested to be half rate. They will post on this thread as well once the powers that be approve doing so !
 

cornpicker

New Member
spring2016 718.JPG spring2016 710.JPG

Hi All,

I am the BASF technical manager and will try and answer fairly any queries you may have.

Clive has picked up on the advertising campaign and has decide to challenge it for himself on his own farm. I visited the field on Friday and took a few pictures, attached above. The trial site is a light land and therefore drought prone site, it is growing a crop of Skyfall which can often be one of the "cleaner" varieties to grow. So it should be good challenge.

Having read through the posts to date I will try and make general comments on everything that has been questioned without answering each individually.

Our claim is not against untreated but against a bixafen program. The trials data we have used to make this claim is not our own but from independent bodies such as AICC, NIAB TAG and SRUC. The data comes from the last 2 years results, so in general a very high disease pressure year in 2014 and a fairly low one last year. Yet both gave more than enough of a return to give us the confidence to make the claim. The graphs are attached in an earlier post and you can see for yourself the basis of our claim.

With regard to rates, we intend to use commercial (not full) rates at both timings, the final decision will be made as we get closer to T1 but typically 1.0L Adexar (50% dose rate) would be technically and commercially credible, I imagine that Bayer would advocate a similar 1.0L rate of Aviator. T2 is obviously some time away, again decisions will be made at the time, but I am envisaging 1-1.25L Librax (50-62.5% dose rate) depending on disease pressure, again I would surmise that Aviator rates will be similar.

I think it is prudent to mix a multi site at both timings as a good anti resistance measure and will be suggesting that Clive should add 1.0 L chlorothalonil to both Adexar and Librax.

Decisions around T3 will be made towards the end of May, and T3 if applied will be whatever the farm standard is.

Any questions, ping 'em over!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Anyone else think the agcellence brand thing is really sh!t?
never really interested in the branding of these things - does anyone buy based on the name etc ?

would love to know how the chemical companies come up with some of them !
 

franklin

New Member
[
Decisions around T3 will be made towards the end of May, and T3 if applied will be whatever the farm standard is.

Any questions, ping 'em over!
Hiya,

With Skyfall being an awned variety, do you think that there is some merit to bringing forward the T3 / delaying T2 (!) to give a good coating to the awns? We always found that a strob or similar on the awns of Soissons was a good way to go.
 

Hampton

Member
Location
Shropshire
never really interested in the branding of these things - does anyone buy based on the name etc ?

would love to know how the chemical companies come up with some of them !
No, buy on product efficacy and quality.
It was more a comment about why someone in the marketing department got that through to market without being laughed out of their job.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
So here is the t1 plan

Plot 1 (BASF)
1.0 L Adexar
1.0 L Bravo

Plot 2 (Bayer)
1.0L Aviator
1.0L Bravo

Plot 3 (TWB) rest of field (farm practice)
1.0 Aviator

all plots will also be getting 2L /ha of Maxi-Phi M&M (Mag and and Mang) in the mix
Applications rate will be our standard farm practice 100L/ha through guardian air nozzels (back/fwd facing) at 12kph
 

richard hammond

Member
Agronomist
So here is the t1 plan

Plot 1 (BASF)
1.0 L Adexar
1.0 L Bravo

Plot 2 (Bayer)
1.0L Aviator
1.0L Bravo

Plot 3 (TWB) rest of field (farm practice)
1.0 Aviator

all plots will also be getting 2L /ha of Maxi-Phi M&M (Mag and and Mang) in the mix
Applications rate will be our standard farm practice 100L/ha through guardian air nozzels (back/fwd facing) at 12kph
Bayer are being brave Aviator/CTL is there no antagonistic effect to Aviator/Xpro??
 

Tractor Boy

Member
Location
Suffolk
Bayer are being brave Aviator/CTL is there no antagonistic effect to Aviator/Xpro??
Not any more apparently. They told us earlier in the year they were happy with the mix in a protectant situation but if you need the sdhi to do some eradicate activity it would need to enter the plant quicker so miss the CTL out. Seemed like a bit of spin to me as they realised without the OK to mix with CTL they would lose market share.
 

Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
Bayer are being brave Aviator/CTL is there no antagonistic effect to Aviator/Xpro??
Not any more apparently. They told us earlier in the year they were happy with the mix in a protectant situation but if you need the sdhi to do some eradicate activity it would need to enter the plant quicker so miss the CTL out. Seemed like a bit of spin to me as they realised without the OK to mix with CTL they would lose market share.
+1

They've backtracked on mxing CTL & Aviator at T1. I can't help but wonder if they were losing sales based on replicated trials results showing that slight antagonism.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Best prices I can get today on products for fair comparison

Aviator £33.30 /L
Adexar £29.00 /L
Bravo £4.65


So plot to date costs

Plot 1 BASF

T0 £10.40
T1 £33.65

Total £44.05

Plot 2 Bayer

T0 £10,40
T1 £37.95

Total £48.35

Plot 3 TWB

T0 £10.40
T1 £33.00

Total £43.40/ha
 
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Good trial this - well done Clive.

I think every farmer should do their own mini-trials, even if they are not quite as advanced as this one. We've missed out one tram-line of our main T1 mix (0.5 l/ha Aviator + 0.5 l/ha Tubosan (tebuconazole) + 1 l/ha Rover (CTL)) and have left a bit unsprayed and the rest has just had a 1 l/ha of Amistar Opti. Santiago which had a 1 l/ha of Cherokee at T0 and looking reasonably clean at present (unlike the Reflection which has had quite a bit of yellow rust and septoria).

We have some Cordiale which has had T0, some which hasn't and some with a late T0. All interesting to look at and there's quite a range of disease levels in crops at the moment.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Good trial this - well done Clive.

I think every farmer should do their own mini-trials, even if they are not quite as advanced as this one. We've missed out one tram-line of our main T1 mix (0.5 l/ha Aviator + 0.5 l/ha Tubosan (tebuconazole) + 1 l/ha Rover (CTL)) and have left a bit unsprayed and the rest has just had a 1 l/ha of Amistar Opti. Santiago which had a 1 l/ha of Cherokee at T0 and looking reasonably clean at present (unlike the Reflection which has had quite a bit of yellow rust and septoria).

We have some Cordiale which has had T0, some which hasn't and some with a late T0. All interesting to look at and there's quite a range of disease levels in crops at the moment.
My agronomist here this morning and is convinced this year has all the signs of a very high pressure year

He's not holding back on spend which is VERY unlike him ;-)
 

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109: Monitor Farm takeover

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109: Monitor Farm takeover

Written by AHDB

The first episode in the Farm Excellence series of the AHDB podcast focuses on cereals & oilseeds. The Monitor Farm programme comprises a network of farmers from across the UK and Northern Ireland committed to driving innovation and best practice. They host regular meetings at their farms in which they discuss issues facing agriculture in their...
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