The TFF Fungicide trial

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I've just caught up on the whole thread - has this been written up in a more concise article @Clive
Not anywhere other than here so far as far as I am aware

But .......... as you might expect BASF are rather pleased with the result and it turns out I wasn't the only farmer putting their claim to the test in 2016 and not the only one who got a positive result

They are quite understandably planning publicity around it and I spent some time last week having my picture taken and some filming done on farm talking about the trail so I expect its going to get plenty press coverage in coming months. There will be a website that gives a concise summary of my trial and ones done by other farmers which soon as its live I will post a link to

In the interests and open independant nature of TFF - Just to be clear and transparent I have charged BASF for my time involved with helping them create their publicity around this after the result as I have better things to do for nothing that talk to press and have my picture taken ! However It should also be made clear that no one bought any result here, the result simply is what it is and I think its fair enough that a manufacturer would want to shout about it when things go well for them and I'm happy to help with that as long as my time is compensated for

Next year I hope to run a similar trial but hopefully with products from more manufacturers and compare some more conventional (cheap generic) strategies to these higher end products. I'm told both Bayer and Syngenta have new products coming and it would be great to see farm scale trials like this to see if they do as they will all probably claim. There can always only ever be one winner though and I will simply set out to record what happens on my farm and the thinking and costing behind it through the season as it unfolds
 
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Not enough difference to be significant in my book.

Peculiar year for disease pressure I think, I would be very wary of advising other people to try to emulate the program in vastly different areas where the local climate is different.

CTL must be used as the backbone of any program IMO, my thoughts are wavering toward whether the inclusion of any triazole at T0 is worthwhile TBH, not sure.

It is worth knowing that Syngenta, Bayer and Dow all have new cereal fungicide chemistry in the pipeline, I don't know whether they are likely to be available for the 2017 or 2018 season however.

I would also argue that Aviator/Adexar has more curative punch than the Dupont product, but I would hesitate to say the Dupont has better protectant activity.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Not enough difference to be significant in my book.

Peculiar year for disease pressure I think, I would be very wary of advising other people to try to emulate the program in vastly different areas where the local climate is different.

CTL must be used as the backbone of any program IMO, my thoughts are wavering toward whether the inclusion of any triazole at T0 is worthwhile TBH, not sure.

It is worth knowing that Syngenta, Bayer and Dow all have new cereal fungicide chemistry in the pipeline, I don't know whether they are likely to be available for the 2017 or 2018 season however.

I would also argue that Aviator/Adexar has more curative punch than the Dupont product, but I would hesitate to say the Dupont has better protectant activity.
I wouldn't begin to advice anyone anything based on this. No more should be read into the result other than it is what it is, a live blog of a simple on farm comparison on my farm this year, in a real farm, real field situation with all the limitations that brings vs small plot replicated trials which personally I don't feel reflect what we all actually do or the real results we get on farm

different farms, soils, varieties, geography and season etc would I'm sure yield different results - I'm looking forward to seeing the results they say they have from other similar farmer trails this year (I've not seen them yet )
 
I wouldn't begin to advice anyone anything based on this. No more should be read into the result other than it is what it is, a live blog of a simple on farm comparison on my farm this year, in a real farm, real field situation with all the limitations that brings vs small plot replicated trials which personally I don't feel reflect what we all actually do or the real results we get on farm

different farms, soils, varieties, geography and season etc would I'm sure yield different results - I'm looking forward to seeing the results they say they have from other similar farmer trails this year (I've not seen them yet )
Fair enough, maybe next year there will be new actives to try.

I have seen trials involving the cheap/generic only route at all 3 timings, suffice to say none of it was pretty- it doesn't work basically.

If you want to create some real controversy I would suggest you do a test of sorts on winter barley, and see how far a cheap package will get you. You may be surprised by the results. Wheat disease is too fickle I think.
 
Fair enough, maybe next year there will be new actives to try.

I have seen trials involving the cheap/generic only route at all 3 timings, suffice to say none of it was pretty- it doesn't work basically.

If you want to create some real controversy I would suggest you do a test of sorts on winter barley, and see how far a cheap package will get you. You may be surprised by the results. Wheat disease is too fickle I think.
Did one only fandango on winter barley just before awns emerged this year. Seemed to be as good as any product
 

richard hammond

Member
Agronomist
Not enough difference to be significant in my book.

Peculiar year for disease pressure I think, I would be very wary of advising other people to try to emulate the program in vastly different areas where the local climate is different.

CTL must be used as the backbone of any program IMO, my thoughts are wavering toward whether the inclusion of any triazole at T0 is worthwhile TBH, not sure.

It is worth knowing that Syngenta, Bayer and Dow all have new cereal fungicide chemistry in the pipeline, I don't know whether they are likely to be available for the 2017 or 2018 season however.

I would also argue that Aviator/Adexar has more curative punch than the Dupont product, but I would hesitate to say the Dupont has better protectant activity.
Every year is different, every area can be different but trials need to be done area specific and of course results will differ.
I find every year peculiar disease wise none have been the same for 30years that I have done the job. Would you not include a cheapo triazole for rust protection, I think you would if you were on the east coast! (different site)
 
Every year is different, every area can be different but trials need to be done area specific and of course results will differ.
I find every year peculiar disease wise none have been the same for 30years that I have done the job. Would you not include a cheapo triazole for rust protection, I think you would if you were on the east coast! (different site)
I can see the fit for triazoles, but I do wonder if they make much of a contribution at T0.
 
Can i ask if you guys ever run out of fungicides in the UK - during the season - it seems to be getting more common here for some reason - chemical companies running out with massive price hikes in folllowingg year...they have done it with Pre -ems as well at times...

Just been informed we are running out and may not be able to get, i quizzed my agro 1 month ago about this...now the scratching to get...

I wont plant spring barley if i cant spray for net blotch...seed - fert and knockdown chemical in shed...

Ant...
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think this proves it can work, it was clean as a whistle!

View attachment 404530
that does look clean, the low input approach is something that has been discussed on here a lot, there is no doubt that in the right season , situation and variety it does seem to do ok, to my knowledge no one has done and scale margin comparisons though with the level of detail I have tried to put into this from a farmer's point of view and shared with others. @warksfarmer did some low input trials (interestingly we share the same indy agronomist) that certainly show a low input approach can still yield but it would have been great to see them alongside BASF, Bayer, and syngenta programs at scale comparing margins.

However what my trial has underlined to me this year it's not the cost that matters, with low commodity prices it feels logical to cut all costs to the bone, I have done this with my fixed costs etc as far as I feel I reasonably can. The BASF fungicides were the most expensive of the 3 plots tested in 2016 so if keeping costs low was my only focus I would never have used that approach, What I'm taking away from this is not necessarily that product X is better than product Y etc. but that even at low commodity prices yield is still king and it's maximising margin and not just cost cutting I should be focusing harder upon

Putting a low cost package alongside the premium products at farm scale next year will certainly be interesting but the winner in my eyes will always be the best margin plot and not the simply cheapest
 
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shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
that does look clean, the low input approach is something that has been discussed on here a lot, there is no doubt that in the right season , situation and variety it does seem to do ok, to my knowledge no one has done and scale margin comparisons though with the level of detail I have tried to put into this from a farmer's point of view and shared with others. @warksfarmer did some low input trials (interestingly we share the same indy agronomist) that certainly show a low input approach can still yield but it would have been great to see them alongside BASF, Bayer, and syngenta programs at scale comparing margins.

However what my trial has underlined to me this year it's not the cost that matters, with low commodity prices it feels logical to cut all costs to the bone, I have done this with my fixed costs etc as far as I feel I reasonably can. The BASF fungicides were the most expensive of the 3 plots tested in 2016 so if keeping costs low was my only focus I would never have used that approach, What I'm taking away from this is not necessarily that product X is better than product Y etc. but that even at low commodity prices yield is still king and it's maximising margin and not just cost cutting I should be focusing harder upon

Putting a low cost package alongside the premium products at farm scale next year will certainly be interesting but the winner in my eyes will always be the best margin plot and not the simply cheapest
whatever happened to the zero inputs out a bottle or bag by 2020 ambition?!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
whatever happened to the zero inputs out a bottle or bag by 2020 ambition?!
im still working towards that goal on one 11ac trial field .....................in the meantime I have to stay in business !

it was never going to be zero-input though, i don't aim to become organic ! my challenge was to cut all insecticide and fungicide, half artificial N and still get 8t/ha of wheat IIRC

I dont know if its realistic, but im trying anyway ! I should update that thread but this year I grew linseed break on that field after WW> CC >sheep using just undressed seed herbicide and N so i'm on course !
 

shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
im still working towards that goal on one 11ac trial field .....................in the meantime I have to stay in business !

it was never going to be zero-input though, i don't aim to become organic ! my challenge was to cut all insecticide and fungicide, half artificial N and still get 8t/ha of wheat IIRC

I dont know if its realistic, but im trying anyway ! I should update that thread but this year I grew linseed break on that field after WW> CC >sheep using just undressed seed herbicide and N so i'm on course !
def possible with oats and spring barley with some muck/ glypho imo!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
def possible with oats and spring barley with some muck/ glypho imo!
getting OT but just had a load of muck spread on it and going into wheat end of this week I hope, undressed Skyfall selected so hopefully I can go quite minimal of fungicide on that field this year, OBM resist etc and no plans to proactively chase BYDV etc so forsee no need for an insecticide. will cut N on the back of FYM and sheep etc but not as far as 50% - few years until 2020 yet, fertility and biology / benificials to build still !
 

shakerator

Member
Location
LINCS
getting OT but just had a load of muck spread on it and going into wheat end of this week I hope, undressed Skyfall selected so hopefully I can go quite minimal of fungicide on that field this year, OBM resist etc and no plans to proactively chase BYDV etc so forsee no need for an insecticide. will cut N on the back of FYM and sheep etc but not as far as 50% - few years until 2020 yet !
whats muck rate?
 

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A trading update from animal genetics business Genus says trading in the first four months of the current year, to October 31st 2019, has seen volumes, revenues and adjusted profit grow across its PIC and ABS pig and cattle divisions. The global pig business is benefitting from rising pigmeat prices in China, following the African […]

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