The three main challenges of the modern farmer

[mikkelebbesen]

Politics creates regulation which hinders those who do the job. The UK appears to take on board every letter of such "rules" yet the French & others pick and choose what suits their national interest. Fortunately the Brexit decision may improve that slightly.

The playing field of globalisation will never be level....... living costs, land costs, wages. input costs are much lower in other countries which leads to cheaper products on the market.

Cheaper isn`t necessarily better, racing to the bottom doesn`t improve anyones life........ society has become far too wasteful. As a kid growing up in the 1970`s wasting food was an aberration , now its "normal".

You mentioned the issue of costs. And you're right, there will always be differences. Especially up until the financial crisis, Danish agriculture was also racing to the bottom, and to some degree, we still are. Some have managed to become price makers instead of price takers.

How do enable farmers to become price makers and not price takers racing to the bottom?

 

[JCMaloney]

No idea! I used to work in the meat trade and the volume of imported product I saw re-sold as UK produced was scary. The primary driver was price & profit for the middle men. We then suffered imported labour on salaries roughly 60% of what we earnt, great for the company owner.....until all the skilled guys who were on "job & finish" were gone & the cheap labour was taking 12 hours to do what we done in 7.....saving was gone!

Financial crisis is a whole different ball game.... some countries jailed the bankers, we just gave them more bits of paper & numbers.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

To me, it seems like you have come up with some interesting options that into consideration your specific situation. Up until the financial crisis, we were all about specializing and increasing our production - more pigs, more cattle, more acres. The crisis has made some diversify their business and look to niche markets, as you consider.

How do you get the additional knowledge needed to move into these new areas of farming?

The internet is a great place to research!
One thing I've found, is other farmers are quick to scoff if you are bold about doing things differently. I definitely know that things such as organic meat production aren't for everyone, and many people simply don't understand it or believe it will work.
It doesn't make sense for me to just follow the herd and do the same things, I'm not going to make enough margin to keep paying down debt once interest rates rise.
The biggest challenge is keeping things pointing in the right direction through the transition, obviously buying in store stock and going 'cold turkey' with drenches etc means some can't handle it, so alternatives methods of work control etc pose a problem- you aren't buying the best animals as stores!
Fortunately as I mentioned above - there is quite a progressive group down this way that are already processing and selling into the organic markets, which is an immense help. I can hopefully source store stock from them and overcome some problems that way. Too much of agriculture is reliant in some way shape or form, I am striving to be less reliant all the time, using technology to identify good traits and performance under low input organic systems rather than just focussing on production is what I'm trying to do.
Pumpkins I grow in the manure in the barn while I'm waiting for it to dry out, I put a few pigs in to help rootle it up and stop grain from germinating. And over winter I am aiming to build a couple of small chicken sheds that I can move around behind the sheep to eat any worms/eggs and help scatter the dung around, any surplus of eggs or pumpkins can be fed back to the stock or sold locally. These two require very little input from me and add to the main operations rather than compete for resources. Even a little extra income is useful to me, my time is hardly accounted for as I simply love farming and growing things, so it's like a 'pocket money' for my time I guess.
This isn't a way forward for farmers with hundreds of acres, but with a small unit it can hopefully add profitability with little risk.

 

[4course]

I notice that your examples of the power of multinationals are from the input side of agriculture. What can we do to improve our situation on the output side?

its the same on the output side ,the multinationals effectively control the trade, its the same companies who trade in europe ,china, australasia ,south and north america and the old eastern bloc its too late for the independent farmer or minor coop -trading group to retrieve the situation the only wayt hat you or I as a producer is going to survive as we are is for some other poor sod to suffer

 

[mikkelebbesen]

The internet is a great place to research!
One thing I've found, is other farmers are quick to scoff if you are bold about doing things differently. I definitely know that things such as organic meat production aren't for everyone, and many people simply don't understand it or believe it will work.
It doesn't make sense for me to just follow the herd and do the same things, I'm not going to make enough margin to keep paying down debt once interest rates rise.
The biggest challenge is keeping things pointing in the right direction through the transition, obviously buying in store stock and going 'cold turkey' with drenches etc means some can't handle it, so alternatives methods of work control etc pose a problem- you aren't buying the best animals as stores!
Fortunately as I mentioned above - there is quite a progressive group down this way that are already processing and selling into the organic markets, which is an immense help. I can hopefully source store stock from them and overcome some problems that way. Too much of agriculture is reliant in some way shape or form, I am striving to be less reliant all the time, using technology to identify good traits and performance under low input organic systems rather than just focussing on production is what I'm trying to do.
Pumpkins I grow in the manure in the barn while I'm waiting for it to dry out, I put a few pigs in to help rootle it up and stop grain from germinating. And over winter I am aiming to build a couple of small chicken sheds that I can move around behind the sheep to eat any worms/eggs and help scatter the dung around, any surplus of eggs or pumpkins can be fed back to the stock or sold locally. These two require very little input from me and add to the main operations rather than compete for resources. Even a little extra income is useful to me, my time is hardly accounted for as I simply love farming and growing things, so it's like a 'pocket money' for my time I guess.
This isn't a way forward for farmers with hundreds of acres, but with a small unit it can hopefully add profitability with little risk.

I've actually trawled the internet to find online resources, online courses, online education etc. on farming. Many of the big, online, educational providers have very little on the subject, e.g. Coursera or Udemy. I do find a lot of forums (like this one) and certain "thought leaders" in alternative agriculture (e.g. urban farming, permaculture) have a strong online presence. Where do you do your online research? And is there is a difference, whether you are trying to solve a practical or a more theoretical problem?

You say there's a progressive group going the same way as you, who can help you. Where else do you seek advice/knowledge?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I've actually trawled the internet to find online resources, online courses, online education etc. on farming. Many of the big, online, educational providers have very little on the subject, e.g. Coursera or Udemy. I do find a lot of forums (like this one) and certain "thought leaders" in alternative agriculture (e.g. urban farming, permaculture) have a strong online presence. Where do you do your online research? And is there is a difference, whether you are trying to solve a practical or a more theoretical problem?

You say there's a progressive group going the same way as you, who can help you. Where else do you seek advice/knowledge?

Yes I have found the exact same thing, forums seem to be where the knowledge is.
Most of my borrowed ideas have come from people such as Joel Salatin, he possibly is making more money from public speaking than farming though
I find there are often more opportunities to learn from businesses other than farm business, when it comes to innovation farmers are great, but many are reluctant to adapt their thinking wholeheartedly.
Especially when it comes to diversity.
I have heard that insanity is defined by doing the same things over and over, and expecting different results... yet many of my neighbours seem to be adopting this exact approach to farm business management. Just do what dad did, which was what grandfather was doing before him... superphosphate and lime! You can't bake a cake with just eggs and flour.
Back to your question, I think I have mastered getting answers from Google by asking the right questions, even looking on lifestyle block forums for different approaches, these smallholders of course are much less reliant on a tractor and infrastructure as most have none!
I think my approach is more of a holistic mimicry of what happened before mankind learnt about cultivation; the grass grew, herbivores came in their droves, and were moved on- the birds took care of the residues and pathogens, and then the soil had a rest.
Nowhere was the topsoil flipped over allowing the carbon to oxidize, most farming effort seems to lie in turning the wonderful soil into a batter and expecting it to perform now many are feeling that it's market forces etc limiting their survival and feeling disenchanted.
Search 'carbon farming' 'biomimicry' 'sequestration' and you'll get a rough outline of what I'm trying to do. But for goodness sake don't speak these words at the market!!
I see solutions everywhere I go, I read somewhere that once you find your first opportunity you will see them everywhere.. I am a bit of a problem solver. I don't try to convince people that I'm right, as I've learnt the folly of that part.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Yes I have found the exact same thing, forums seem to be where the knowledge is.
Most of my borrowed ideas have come from people such as Joel Salatin, he possibly is making more money from public speaking than farming though
I find there are often more opportunities to learn from businesses other than farm business, when it comes to innovation farmers are great, but many are reluctant to adapt their thinking wholeheartedly.
Especially when it comes to diversity.
I have heard that insanity is defined by doing the same things over and over, and expecting different results... yet many of my neighbours seem to be adopting this exact approach to farm business management. Just do what dad did, which was what grandfather was doing before him... superphosphate and lime! You can't bake a cake with just eggs and flour.
Back to your question, I think I have mastered getting answers from Google by asking the right questions, even looking on lifestyle block forums for different approaches, these smallholders of course are much less reliant on a tractor and infrastructure as most have none!
I think my approach is more of a holistic mimicry of what happened before mankind learnt about cultivation; the grass grew, herbivores came in their droves, and were moved on- the birds took care of the residues and pathogens, and then the soil had a rest.
Nowhere was the topsoil flipped over allowing the carbon to oxidize, most farming effort seems to lie in turning the wonderful soil into a batter and expecting it to perform now many are feeling that it's market forces etc limiting their survival and feeling disenchanted.
Search 'carbon farming' 'biomimicry' 'sequestration' and you'll get a rough outline of what I'm trying to do. But for goodness sake don't speak these words at the market!!
I see solutions everywhere I go, I read somewhere that once you find your first opportunity you will see them everywhere.. I am a bit of a problem solver. I don't try to convince people that I'm right, as I've learnt the folly of that part.

Don't give us the "Just do what Dad did, which was what Grandfather was doing before him" quote!!! In my case , they both realised farming in Holland was buggered, and saw the light that pastoral dairy farming is the way of the future, and going to the other side of the world was the way to do it! More chances of hell freezing over than for me to regress to the farming methods of Grandads youth.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Don't give us the "Just do what Dad did, which was what Grandfather was doing before him" quote!!! In my case , they both realised farming in Holland was buggered, and saw the light that pastoral dairy farming is the way of the future, and going to the other side of the world was the way to do it! More chances of hell freezing over than for me to regress to the farming methods of Grandads youth.

Drive a fert truck around the Catlins for a few days, I'm fairly sure some of the locals would start ploughing with a horse again if they thought it would bring back "the good old days"..
I heard one of the guys around my age, at discussion group, saying he'd have to wait until the old man either dies or retires, to have any hope of putting sulphur on, or running anything other than Romney and Hereford. Hard to deal with those sorts of traditions.
IME the Dutch are some of the most progressive and hardest working people in NZ, especially those who left during the depression.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Drive a fert truck around the Catlins for a few days, I'm fairly sure some of the locals would start ploughing with a horse again if they thought it would bring back "the good old days"..
I heard one of the guys around my age, at discussion group, saying he'd have to wait until the old man either dies or retires, to have any hope of putting sulphur on, or running anything other than Romney and Hereford. Hard to deal with those sorts of traditions.
IME the Dutch are some of the most progressive and hardest working people in NZ, especially those who left during the depression.

Did you know the great idea of getting the dutch to immigrate to New Zealand actually dates back to the late 30's? WW2 put a spanner in the works, it was only implemented in the 50's in any great number. Also remember that many came on assisted passage, paid for by the Dutch government, a one way ticket to NZ, you had to work for a New Zealander for two years and if you wanted to return to the Netherlands before the two years were up, you had to repay the cost of the fare to NZ as well as your return fare. Tasman's Legacy by Hank Schouten is well worth a read too.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Did you know the great idea of getting the dutch to immigrate to New Zealand actually dates back to the late 30's? WW2 put a spanner in the works, it was only implemented in the 50's in any great number. Also remember that many came on assisted passage, paid for by the Dutch government, a one way ticket to NZ, you had to work for a New Zealander for two years and if you wanted to return to the Netherlands before the two years were up, you had to repay the cost of the fare to NZ as well as your return fare. Tasman's Legacy by Hank Schouten is well worth a read too.

I have heard of it but never found it, I might ask the local library to find it for me.
I think the Dutch have a great system of teaching their children about wealth creation and money, something you won't find in schools (unsure about abroad) which is invaluable, I have had my best lessons and advice from a certain young sharemilker I had the pleasure of working for, Mr Van Gool...
I think schools aim to create employees, not business minds, which is a shame especially for agriculturally minded students, who don't want to spend any longer in an institution than they have to.
Perhaps the stigma of wanting to go farm is a disadvantage for a student? I was told I was far too bright to be a farmer. In dad's day, the ag kids were put in a separate class and given the mushroom treatment...
What's your take, is creating good employees disadvantaging aspiring young farmers? Or is the industry itself more of a problem to attracting bright young minds..
Its a bit off the line of this thread I know, but the old fellas will be a bit old in another 20 odd years, then what becomes of our agriculture industries, markets and quotas? Perhaps urbanization is one of the biggest challenges to agriculture?

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I have heard of it but never found it, I might ask the local library to find it for me.
I think the Dutch have a great system of teaching their children about wealth creation and money, something you won't find in schools (unsure about abroad) which is invaluable, I have had my best lessons and advice from a certain young sharemilker I had the pleasure of working for, Mr Van Gool...
I think schools aim to create employees, not business minds, which is a shame especially for agriculturally minded students, who don't want to spend any longer in an institution than they have to.
Perhaps the stigma of wanting to go farm is a disadvantage for a student? I was told I was far too bright to be a farmer. In dad's day, the ag kids were put in a separate class and given the mushroom treatment...
What's your take, is creating good employees disadvantaging aspiring young farmers? Or is the industry itself more of a problem to attracting bright young minds..
Its a bit off the line of this thread I know, but the old fellas will be a bit old in another 20 odd years, then what becomes of our agriculture industries, markets and quotas? Perhaps urbanization is one of the biggest challenges to agriculture?

I don't think we Dutch had a system of "wealth creation and money", it was more " There is no opportunity in the Netherlands, here's a one way ticket, just don't return!" The ones that came to NZ ,this was their "Plan B" and there was no "Plan C", you had to make it work, there was no other option!!! You also have to remember most of the generation that came here in the 50's grew up in the war ,so when they got to NZ, they were not held back by the previous generation, and "risk" is only a four letter word, because when you have next to nothing , you have nothing to loose.
I think even into the 80's ,the perception it you were not too bright was anything in agriculture was an option, and that working in agriculture wasn't really a "business".
As for school ,our secondary school had a "numpty class" ( As like on last weeks "800 Words") for form 1, most of them never amounted to much, but if the school had put in a bit more effort it could have been life changing for those in those classes.
Back when I was at school, there focus seemed to be in getting students to go to university, at the expense of getting students into apprenticeships and trades, the problem is ,not all students want or even desire to go to university.
As an employer you should be encouraging and challenging your employees to be the best they can be, so they can make that next step on the farming ladder, not holding them back.
As for urbanization being a challenge to agriculture, ffs don't get me started on turning "productive land" in to poorly planned, overpriced residential property, its a f!@#ing big problem up here

 

[Kiwi Pete]

^^^^ wish I could give you 3 likes for that.

 

[banjo]

1 Supermarkets rigging prices of produce
2 Supermarkets rigging prices of produce
3 Supermarkets rigging prices of produce

 

[glasshouse]

NZ has turned into UK and holland with investors now in charge of the property/land market.
Young farmers used to have a chance in nz, but not now.
Google john mackenzie whose statue sits above palmerston in otago who set up a system to benefit everyone, sadly swept away in the eighties as thatcherism swept the world

 

[JohnGalway]

1. Other farmers
2. Politicians
3. unCivil servants

 

[mikkelebbesen]

Yes I have found the exact same thing, forums seem to be where the knowledge is.
Most of my borrowed ideas have come from people such as Joel Salatin, he possibly is making more money from public speaking than farming though
I find there are often more opportunities to learn from businesses other than farm business, when it comes to innovation farmers are great, but many are reluctant to adapt their thinking wholeheartedly.
Especially when it comes to diversity.
I have heard that insanity is defined by doing the same things over and over, and expecting different results... yet many of my neighbours seem to be adopting this exact approach to farm business management. Just do what dad did, which was what grandfather was doing before him... superphosphate and lime! You can't bake a cake with just eggs and flour.
Back to your question, I think I have mastered getting answers from Google by asking the right questions, even looking on lifestyle block forums for different approaches, these smallholders of course are much less reliant on a tractor and infrastructure as most have none!
I think my approach is more of a holistic mimicry of what happened before mankind learnt about cultivation; the grass grew, herbivores came in their droves, and were moved on- the birds took care of the residues and pathogens, and then the soil had a rest.
Nowhere was the topsoil flipped over allowing the carbon to oxidize, most farming effort seems to lie in turning the wonderful soil into a batter and expecting it to perform now many are feeling that it's market forces etc limiting their survival and feeling disenchanted.
Search 'carbon farming' 'biomimicry' 'sequestration' and you'll get a rough outline of what I'm trying to do. But for goodness sake don't speak these words at the market!!
I see solutions everywhere I go, I read somewhere that once you find your first opportunity you will see them everywhere.. I am a bit of a problem solver. I don't try to convince people that I'm right, as I've learnt the folly of that part.

The dog used to be man's best friend. I wonder if it has been replaced by Doctor Google .. Interesting that you do not only get your knowledge from forums like this one, but also from forums dominated by smallholders. What is it they have to offer that is different and more helpful compared to regular agricultural forums? And do you have any experience paying for agricultural knowledge online, e.g. an online course?

 

[mikkelebbesen]

Drive a fert truck around the Catlins for a few days, I'm fairly sure some of the locals would start ploughing with a horse again if they thought it would bring back "the good old days"..
I heard one of the guys around my age, at discussion group, saying he'd have to wait until the old man either dies or retires, to have any hope of putting sulphur on, or running anything other than Romney and Hereford. Hard to deal with those sorts of traditions.
IME the Dutch are some of the most progressive and hardest working people in NZ, especially those who left during the depression.

Could you explain me what a discussion group is? If it is somewhat like what we have in Denmark, it is a group in which farmers share their experiences with regards to animal husbandry, crop production or finances. We call them "expi-groups".

 

[FonterraFarmer]

NZ has turned into UK and holland with investors now in charge of the property/land market.
Young farmers used to have a chance in nz, but not now.
Google john mackenzie whose statue sits above palmerston in otago who set up a system to benefit everyone, sadly swept away in the eighties as thatcherism swept the world

I'd disagree, young farmers still have a chance now in NZ, but ammitedly they have to be more business orientated and not scared of risk and hard work, and avoiding the perils of shiney new utes and tractors. Its not easy , but wasn't exactly easy for those in the 80's or 60's either.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I tried to look up MMB on Google but without luck. Could you explain it to me?

You say there's little experience working together in the UK, in the way you do it in a co-op. What's needed to make it a feasible way to do things?

I'm not a dairy farmer so may get some details wrong but:
The MMB (Milk Marketing Board) was a producer owed cooperative with a virtual monopoly on milk supply in the UK. It gave a fixed price to all producers based on cleanliness and butterfat content. It was then in a monopoly situation when selling the milk wholesale to the retail chain. With its demise the power has shifted 180 degrees and the producers are now price takers at the whim of the big dairy companies and their customers, the supermarkets.

There have been many other attempts to set up product cooperatives in other farm sectors in the UK but none have really thrived. UK farmers seem to be too independently minded to accept the compromises necessary.

 

[mikkelebbesen]

I have heard of it but never found it, I might ask the local library to find it for me.
I think the Dutch have a great system of teaching their children about wealth creation and money, something you won't find in schools (unsure about abroad) which is invaluable, I have had my best lessons and advice from a certain young sharemilker I had the pleasure of working for, Mr Van Gool...
I think schools aim to create employees, not business minds, which is a shame especially for agriculturally minded students, who don't want to spend any longer in an institution than they have to.
Perhaps the stigma of wanting to go farm is a disadvantage for a student? I was told I was far too bright to be a farmer. In dad's day, the ag kids were put in a separate class and given the mushroom treatment...
What's your take, is creating good employees disadvantaging aspiring young farmers? Or is the industry itself more of a problem to attracting bright young minds..
Its a bit off the line of this thread I know, but the old fellas will be a bit old in another 20 odd years, then what becomes of our agriculture industries, markets and quotas? Perhaps urbanization is one of the biggest challenges to agriculture?

I happen to have a great interest in education, so I'll allow myself to comment. In the Danish system, agricultural education is part of the vocational school system. You go to an agricultural school after finishing secondary school. It takes app. 4 years to obtain your certificate. The studies are split between periods at school (3x 20 weeks) and periods in an apprenticeship on a farm (2x app. 12 months). On top of that, you can study agricultural management for 1.5 years. A few years back, it was also made possible to get a college degree combined with your certificate in agriculture.
What's the agricultural education system like in NZ?

It is a fact that we need to educate more people to become farmers and farmers to become better at what they are doing. In 2050, we will be around 10bn on Earth, requiring to increase our food production by 20 percent. How do we inspire and educate more people to become farmers?