The three strands to ELMS

7610 super q

Member
Arable Farmer
I did my bit today. I helped a frog out from under the Cambridge rolls before towing them out of the nettle bed in the stack yard. I thought to myself it can’t be that bad if we’ve got frogs near the beck in the stack yard. I’ll bet they have been using some of the water pools that have formed in the silage heap ground sheet that hasn’t been cleared up for 3 years.
Done my bit too. Let a barn owl crap the living daylights out of my workshop.
Gets in via a broken window. A window, let alone a broken one, wouldn't be allowed in a modern RT assured grain store etc. Not welcome in an out building converted to a holiday cottage either.
I hate to say it, but an untidy farm still stuck in the 1950's is a wildlife friendly farm.
To quote Bob Geldof " Give me the f**king money now ".

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Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Looks lile the big land owning charities have nobbled DEFRA.

What if you want to access a higher tier, but your neighbours don't want to collaborate. You're stuck on the lower tiers.

Farming is cyclical, be it weather conditions, yields, diseases or prices. Sometimes these events happen for several years in a row.

Subsidies give a financial cushion to this problem.

Unless there's a shift in food prices, looks like DEFRA might be responsible for one whole lot of bankruptcies, land devaluation, negative equity, and a disaster.

As Delilah says, shift the weighting.

And remember, we need to do things which cost us money to get SFI. So it might only be 50% profit from the headline SFI figure.

I think ELMS is going to be a disaster.
 

Vader

Member
I did my bit today. I helped a frog out from under the Cambridge rolls before towing them out of the nettle bed in the stack yard. I thought to myself it can’t be that bad if we’ve got frogs near the beck in the stack yard. I’ll bet they have been using some of the water pools that have formed in the silage heap ground sheet that hasn’t been cleared up for 3 years.
Careful, they will insist you leave that ground sheet in place as its no habitat...
 

Vader

Member
Vote brexit......! We'll pay u the same if not more, - promise u...... We'll rip up the EU rule book so your free to get on with your job, instead of being shackled by all the pointless ridiculous rules..........
And they all fell for it......
Im absolutely dreading this new scheme/schemes......
We voted for Brexit.
No one said we were voting for Carrie to take over the uk...
 

Ceri

Member
Mixed Farmer
We voted for Brexit.
No one said we were voting for Carrie to take over the uk...
Na sorry I don't buy that one, did u really believe all the bull 💩💩💩 they promised.......??? Out of interest do u regret your decision now everythings coming to light....?
 

Vader

Member
Na sorry I don't buy that one, did u really believe all the bull 💩💩💩 they promised.......??? Out of interest do u regret your decision now everythings coming to light....?
Did not belive all that was promised.
But never liked the EU.
I have no regrets.
Campaigned and stood as candidate for ukip and caused the referendum.
Campaigned for brexit.
Hard work paid off, no regrets.
Uk needed a shake up.
A economy built on cheap foreign labour would never last in the long run.
We will get through it , like we did the banking crisis.
Be a stronger economy once all resets.
 

Ceri

Member
Mixed Farmer
Did not belive all that was promised.
But never liked the EU.
I have no regrets.
Campaigned and stood as candidate for ukip and caused the referendum.
Campaigned for brexit.
Hard work paid off, no regrets.
Uk needed a shake up.
A economy built on cheap foreign labour would never last in the long run.
We will get through it , like we did the banking crisis.
Be a stronger economy once all resets.
Well I hope your right ald lad I really do.
 
Did not belive all that was promised.
But never liked the EU.
I have no regrets.
Campaigned and stood as candidate for ukip and caused the referendum.
Campaigned for brexit.
Hard work paid off, no regrets.
Uk needed a shake up.
A economy built on cheap foreign labour would never last in the long run.
We will get through it , like we did the banking crisis.
Be a stronger economy once all resets.
Except by the time the reset undoes the damage done by leaving and begins to pay some sort of positive dividend then 2 generations will have passed and had to suffer needlessly . Hey Ho, we got a blue passport.
 

Vader

Member
Except by the time the reset undoes the damage done by leaving and begins to pay some sort of positive dividend then 2 generations will have passed and had to suffer needlessly . Hey Ho, we got a blue passport.
The big debt we have now is due to the pandemic, not brexit.
 

beardface

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East Yorkshire
This^^. I think the major flaw in 'just in time ' logistics has just been exposed and it has shown that perhaps this is not the time of plentiful food that we have been led to believe. Personally, I think food security just moved up the agenda......


There's 1000's acres that we're ploughed out in the war that shouldn't of been. If the production for profit model is followed then most of it will fall back to nature. The only payment needed from government is a heritage payment for SDA's to maintain the local rural economy. Just let everyone else crack on.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Under current proposals, the total ELMS budget will be split three ways:

1)The Sustainable Farming Initiative. 33%.
Support for individual farmers to deliver ‘public goods’.

2)Local Nature Recovery. 33%.
Collaborative projects between groups of farmers.

3)Landscape Recovery. 33%.
To all intents and purposes: Rewilding.

This budget allocation needs amending now, with the three strands being cut down to two:

1)Sustainable Farming Initiative. 90%.

2)Nature Projects. 10%.

For the vast majority of farmers, the LNR and LR strands to ELMS will be irrelevant. Farmers are already facing one administrative burden with the SFI. Asking them to replicate this commitment of time and energy to a second or even third scheme, and mesh them in with the first, is totally unrealistic. It would be an abuse of public money to only allocate 33% to the SFI and to commit 66% to schemes that will only be of interest to those who least need public money.

There is no need for a ‘Local Nature Recovery’ strand to ELMS. There is nothing that can be achieved by such a scheme, that cannot be achieved via the SFI. If there is seen to be a need for work that crosses boundaries between individual farms, then simply offer that work as options within the SFI and let neighbouring farmers talk to each other about putting in mutually enhancing – but independent – applications. Three farms set up a joint project via LNR. The farmer in the middle then decides to sell up. Is the farm devalued by a legally binding agreement?

All collaborative schemes need coordinating. As soon as you introduce a supporting role into a scheme you are creating an administrative burden that needs paying for. It is absolutely vital that the vast majority of ELMS money finds its way to farmers. Creating ‘clusters’ and suchlike will just mean money being syphoned off for overheads.

The Landscape Recovery pilot is looking for sites between ‘500 and 5,000 connected hectares’. What proportion of England’s farmers will find that relevant to them? If large landholding bodies - private estates, charities, NGO’s – wish to carry out nature-based projects, then great. However, any ‘public money for public goods’ test would find them to be poor value, and they have access to existing funding streams without needing 66% of the ELMS budget.

The money is already being chipped away at. ELMS was being talked about as having an annual budget of £3 billion a year ago. It now seems to be £2.4 billion. In the absence of any cast iron assurances on what the budget will actually be, Defra must at the very least commit that 90% of it will go to those who deliver the most public good: farmers.

agree - I just can’t see how else they are going to find enough £££ to make sfi attractive enough for farmers to actually do it
 

J 1177

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Durham, UK
The best we could do would be to turn our backs to it. Leave defra/rpa with no tools. It is, after all ,not going to anywhere near replace bps financially. Prices are good so push for production.
What defra dont seem to get is farms are businesses, trying to turn a profit (a dirty word) and if the figures dont stack up vs the hastle involved the take up will be very very low.
Iv yet to speak to a farmer who is remotley impressed by this new scheme and they all seem to be saying the same thing, that in reality we will just have to crack on and farm without sub
 

Tubbylew

Member
Location
Herefordshire
agree - I just can’t see how else they are going to find enough £££ to make sfi attractive enough for farmers to actually do it
I think whats being overlooked (perhaps on purpose) is the fact that a good proportion of bps money get invested into stewardship schemes, it may look like stewardship schemes are very popular, but how popular would they be without the bps cash to bankroll them? Not very, I suspect. I'm no fan of bps btw, but it seems like they're using sfi to try and keep some control when they do remove all agricultural support, doesn't seem to be working atm.
 
What defra dont seem to get is farms are businesses, trying to turn a profit (a dirty word) and if the figures dont stack up vs the hastle involved the take up will be very very low.
Iv yet to speak to a farmer who is remotley impressed by this new scheme and they all seem to be saying the same thing, that in reality we will just have to crack on and farm without sub
Yep, Most farms (by number) are first and foremost businesses, but some of the biggest (by area) are little more than a cash cow for already wealthy owners whose main source of income is outside agriculture..
Very difficult to get Joe Public ( And seemingly DEFRA) to understand the massive gulf between the two.
 

CHAP Webinar - Innovative tools to overcome the challenges of Regen Ag

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Applying principles of regen ag can incur a range of on-farm challenges. Learn how innovative tools & machinery can help with these hurdles.

This event will be held online from 1pm to 2pm on Thursday 2nd December 2021 so please block it out in your diary.

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