Yes I know quite long and maybe you just want to look at the intro, discussion and summary as I did first time. I then read the whole thing the second time as it was most interesting and should I believe be read by all notillage practitioners using glyphosate.
By usimg certain cover crops or some other method Clive?
@Simon Chileshaving just picked up on this thread. if you drill a spring crop (either a cereal or a dicot) into a cereal straw mulch would the acids from the straw have been diluted significantly over winter that the issue goes away, or is it still prevalent.
bear in mind my cultivated cereal stubbles have had 11" of rain in last 2 months.
having just picked up on this thread. if you drill a spring crop (either a cereal or a dicot) into a cereal straw mulch would the acids from the straw have been diluted significantly over winter that the issue goes away, or is it still prevalent.
bear in mind my cultivated cereal stubbles have had 11" of rain in last 2 months.
Clive, you remember Bokashi? Spoken about at one of the talks at Groundswell and demoed. This was anaerobic fermenting of compost. A pH neutraliser was required to stop the compost becoming over acidic and later dying because of it thus stopping the breakdown.After a few discussions with Simon over the winter the more I think about this the more I think they are spot on with this theory, it fits and explains so many situations and problems that I think the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming
Not just relevant to zero-til either, all arable systems would benifit from respect to this theory it explains why tines on strip till drills or sub cast osr seems to work well, why lime seems to be best used after a cereal and ahead of osr, why since zero-til i have found wheat after oats the biggest challenge etc
in countries without a martine climate this would be much less of an issue as its often much dryer after drilling
I would like to renew this thread based on the research given here as after the wet early spring we had and planting a few different crops after cover crops, grazed high loaded straw crops this makes a lot of sense. I have mainly sowed using a seed hawk tyned Dale drill placing fertiliser in the spring and so haven’t seen the effect spoken about. Except once when not placing fertiliser with the dale in the spring and now that we are using low disturbance weaving gd. The Pythium root disease feeds off carbon sources of straw etc.as per this research. I personally think this is what the two Simons theory may not be taking into account but would like to know if any of you could vouch for the pythium argument?The theory has three parts to it
1- Identified the problem, which most of us all agree
2- Identify the cause
3- Identify the solution, which seems to be gaining a consensus ie apply lime to increase local ph (although this may increase potential take-all) , sow earlier in drier conditions, place fert close to seed if possible, use crop rotation
My questions is has the theory identified the correct cause? To quote from the previous papers I posted "Two studies conducted in two different fields separated by about 70 miles in eastern Washington, both direct-seeded (no-till), confirmed that wheat yields can be depressed significantly by straw on the soil surface, but showed further that the organism(s) responsible for the yield-depressing effect of straw are in the soil and not in the straw" and "Pythium species are most active as seedling and root pathogens in soils with moisture contents at field capacity or above, and in soils high in clay content and low in soil pH" and "Cold wet trashy seedbeds typical of direct-seed systems will tend to favor greater damage caused by Pythium. This is because of the favorable effects of low temperature and high soil moisture on Pythium and possibly also the stimulatory effects of fresh wheat straw on Pythium as a saprophyte in soil"
I am not saying Pythium this is the cause, but did the two Simons consider this as a possible contributory factor?
In wet seasons where I've established into chopped straw on sandy clay loams I've lost crop, which hasn't been necessarily been the case on my chalky woldsI think it might be the acidic conditions that are favouring the blackgrass, at the same time as your crop , it's competition, is being weakened.
Initially I thought you might be right about the more rapid breakdown occurring in more biologically active soils but for my part the biggest problems I've encountered have been after long term grass which sadly knocks that theory.
I have two grass leys to claydon drill into oats as it goes, ph about 5.9 and am thinking of spreading 2ton of sand to the acre defore drilling. Will that have the desired effect like lime?
Seasand. I'm in Cornwall, there's boatloads of it!Sand?
Seasand. I'm in Cornwall, there's boatloads of it!
3ton of sand is similar to 2ton of lime.
But if it's not as potent, will it do the necessary neutralising effect?
also this oneHave any of you seen this thesis done in Germany on the effects of glyphosate and AMPA especially in the early spring period. It may explain a lot of the symptoms we are seeing but I am no expert so would like comment by someone more qualified. https://d-nb.info/1142977625/34
I hope this link works if it doesn't I will try to get the pdf