The Vegan dilema

[JJT]

I always thought this peta ad wanted editing to include pigeons, rats, slugs, aphids etc...... and handing back to them.

 

[Chris F]

I always thought this peta ad wanted editing to include pigeons, rats, slugs, aphids etc...... and handing back to them.





View attachment 1008501

I mentioned that advert in my first post.

 

[Bald Rick]

Can Greggs incorporate them in their pies.
Who save the NHS millios

The problem occurs when you come to pass said tapeworm.
It would be like a turd on a bungee cord

 

[Longlowdog]

My response to vegans is that approximately 20 lambs die a year on my wee place and I sell tups and breeding ewes. If I went arable the millions of spiders, the bugs and mini-beasts and everything up the food chain would die by herbicide, pesticide or fungicide negating the food chain from the bottom up. Whilst I produce lambs my place supports a dozen roe deer, hares, raptors, little brown birds in their thousands. I've no need to shoot anything even pigeons or crows. If I become a vegan food production area I can legitimately kill by bullet or poison (bugs ) or drive out everything and be farm assured and lauded as a producer of the finest vegan fare. So how is vegan better than pastoral? If I went non chemical, loss accepting, my land would produce nothing worth eating under the pressure of predators, insects, weeds and fungus.
Including cutting hay, feeding out said hay and a wee bit of pasture topping and fencing I use about 300l of red a year. What would that become if I went arable? How many chemicals would I need?
If I let my ground to the nice organic carrot guys just exactly how many passes with a tractor, how much diesel, how much propane, and what size a mountain of plastic would it take to grow those lovely vegan friendly organic carrots?
I can kill twenty lambs and sell breeding stock and have a wildlife oasis among thousands of acres of arable or join the happy throng of vegetablist and vegan food producers and have a veritable arable desert. Which is more morally justifiable? To me it's a no brainer.
My wee operation is scaleable, it is happening on far larger scales. I've no argument with arable, it provides much needed food. Pasture as a part of a rotation is amazing and super complimentary reducing inputs and increasing soil biology. The vegan argument is willfully self delusional and deliberately short sighted citing morality as their driving force whilst ignoring the far reaching implications of their lifestyle choices and the morality failures it creates in the long term. Taking the 'accept your losses' argument to it's natural conclusion would reduce the productivity per acre to dark ages levels but without even the benefit of animal muck and straw as soil conditioners. Land managed in this way would not feed the 7 billion inhabitants of Earth and would require more land to be brought into production at a time when politicians are trying their hardest to reverse this trend.

 

[Red Fred]

Can we use the graphic in our own discussions? One has just popped out of the woodwork on facebook!

 

[Red Fred]

The other response is that at least these creatures are living wild and free. So it is OK to kill wild animals which are natural, but not the farmed animals they don't want here in the first place.

I've just had the other standard response to this issue from the nutters on facebook--"You are just resorting to "whataboutism" "This seems to mean I'm saying "what about all the animals you lot kill", but I'm not meant to bring that up.

 

[Old Boar]

The tapeworm head stays stuck in your guts, the segments, or proglottids, are shed once the worm gets to a certain length.
I call people I dont like proglottids. It is very satifying.

 

[Red Fred]

Well, what do I say to this? (And yes, that's me at top )Mark Vincent you lot just constantly lie....all the peer reviewed studies and scientific data show plant based is better than meat and dairy diets....not to mention the moral justification. Its hardly meadows....its grass,grass and grass (would have been woodland before) . Animal farming takes up 74% of UK land mass,a ridiculous amount of land. Land that could be woodland and many other things. Not to mention the pollution of our waterways,climate footprint of animal products and huge amount public money propping up animal farmers. If its your job or all you know of course you will defend the status quo

 

[Longlowdog]

Who is lying when they have the audacity to claim 'all the studies' defend their stance? They certainly don't and theirs as sure as heck are only peer reviewed by selected reviewers amongst their peers not by what is generally accepted by 'peer review' within the broad church of the scientific community.

 

[DaveGrohl]

I've just had the other standard response to this issue from the nutters on facebook--"You are just resorting to "whataboutism" "This seems to mean I'm saying "what about all the animals you lot kill", but I'm not meant to bring that up.

Says that lot!! Any sad encounters I’ve had with them involve quickly moving off the particular thought thread we were engaged in and trying to divert away. They don’t like actual facts.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Well, what do I say to this? (And yes, that's me at top )Mark Vincent you lot just constantly lie....all the peer reviewed studies and scientific data show plant based is better than meat and dairy diets....not to mention the moral justification. Its hardly meadows....its grass,grass and grass (would have been woodland before) . Animal farming takes up 74% of UK land mass,a ridiculous amount of land. Land that could be woodland and many other things. Not to mention the pollution of our waterways,climate footprint of animal products and huge amount public money propping up animal farmers. If its your job or all you know of course you will defend the status quo

Is that a serious question?

 

[DaveGrohl]

It does make me laugh when they say "all the studies". That’ll be the studies that have absolutely no idea about methane’s role in all this for a start, and those studies that use a variety of assumptions that don’t remotely stack up If you have some actual knowledge. They don’t even understand the basics of crops being refined and waste products having to be dealt with.

 

[teslacoils]

"all the studies" usually means some tripe in the Guardian. Based on us research from a poor university, peer reviewed in a journal with a poor reputation.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Don't really follow this stuff , but there are loads of foods a vegan could eat , so why over process them and try and reinvent meat products, that can't be healthy for them

 

[Muddyroads]

Well, what do I say to this? (And yes, that's me at top )Mark Vincent you lot just constantly lie....all the peer reviewed studies and scientific data show plant based is better than meat and dairy diets....not to mention the moral justification. Its hardly meadows....its grass,grass and grass (would have been woodland before) . Animal farming takes up 74% of UK land mass,a ridiculous amount of land. Land that could be woodland and many other things. Not to mention the pollution of our waterways,climate footprint of animal products and huge amount public money propping up animal farmers. If its your job or all you know of course you will defend the status quo

You could ask them if they also believe the moon landings were faked, Covid vaccines contain microchips and that the earth is flat. If they’re going to believe 1 lot of false information they might as well believe all of them!

 

[primmiemoo]

I've just had the other standard response to this issue from the nutters on facebook--"You are just resorting to "whataboutism" "This seems to mean I'm saying "what about all the animals you lot kill", but I'm not meant to bring that up.

You're filling up that vegan comeback bingo card fast, there

 

[primmiemoo]

Don't really follow this stuff , but there are loads of foods a vegan could eat , so why over process them and try and reinvent meat products, that can't be healthy for them

Some are against the commercialisation of their worldview, but they are rare. What sometimes happens is that anyone who queries lab-grown tumourmeat, or denatured plahrnt fauxburgers is labelled as anti-science.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Don't really follow this stuff , but there are loads of foods a vegan could eat , so why over process them and try and reinvent meat products, that can't be healthy for them

You’re confusing the understandable theory of veganism (flawed as it is) with the highjacking of the thought process by the processed food industry.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Don't really follow this stuff , but there are loads of foods a vegan could eat , so why over process them and try and reinvent meat products, that can't be healthy for them

multi national food companies have just seen it as new marketing opportunity, and the gullible and or lazy have fallen for it.

 

[Bald Rick]