The war in Ukraine...

[German]

There was potato blight throughout Europe, due largely a dependence on a very small gene pool showing no resistance to phytophthera infestans. Many people were starving and many emmigrated to the US and England, My great grandmother`s family came to England from Germany in the mid 19th century for just that reason, Other branches of the family emigrated to America. The situation in Ireland was exhaserbated by a feudal system which not only involved British landowners but Anglo Irish landlords, Nobody can be proud of this but the Westminster government of the time was onto the case. Unfortunately it was too little too late.

Anglo irish landlords = British colonisers simple as

“The Almighty, indeed, sent the potato blight, but the English created the Famine.”

While every other european country stopped the export of grain the british colonisers didnt.
First of all supressing irish industry everywhere but Ulster to satisfy the factory owners.

Your great grandmothers family must have been either the exception or of aristrocratic background because basically nobody emigrated from the territory of modern germany to the british isles in the mid 19th century. there were better alternatives such as the states for commoners.

 

[arcobob]

My great grandmother married a train driver from near Halifax. Hardly the stuff of aristocrats. As was common with many working families in those days they had eleven children. They would have been better of if the old man had spent more time on his train.

 

[czechmate]

My great grandmother married a train driver from near Halifax. Hardly the stuff of aristocrats. As was common with many working families in those days they had eleven children. They would have been better of if the old man had spent more time on his train.

sounds well off if he owned the trains

 

[arcobob]

sounds well off if he owned the trains

You are being pedantic.

 

[arcobob]

Anglo irish landlords = British colonisers simple as

“The Almighty, indeed, sent the potato blight, but the English created the Famine.”

While every other european country stopped the export of grain the british colonisers didnt.
First of all supressing irish industry everywhere but Ulster to satisfy the factory owners.

Your great grandmothers family must have been either the exception or of aristrocratic background because basically nobody emigrated from the territory of modern germany to the british isles in the mid 19th century. there were better alternatives such as the states for commoners.

You present a very simplistic view, full of generalisations, and pick out pockets of information that had predisposing causes that had developed over centuries. The reasons for European migration in the nineteenth century were many and not confined to one or two definable social or economic classes. Industrialisation, work availability, instability amongst the ruling classes and above all else the ability to travel overseas to take advantage of new opportunities. Whoever these people were, their presence in new lands and colonies impacted on those already there, in some cases to disasterous effect.
You cannot cherry pick small pieces of history and treat them in isolation but at the same time you cannot ignore them.

 

[German]

You present a very simplistic view, full of generalisations, and pick out pockets of information that had predisposing causes that had developed over centuries. The reasons for European migration in the nineteenth century were many and not confined to one or two definable social or economic classes. Industrialisation, work availability, instability amongst the ruling classes and above all else the ability to travel overseas to take advantage of new opportunities. Whoever these people were, their presence in new lands and colonies impacted on those already there, in some cases to disasterous effect.
You cannot cherry pick small pieces of history and treat them in isolation but at the same time you cannot ignore them.

Yeah you are actually right.
maybe history and politics are a little more nuanced then they seem to be at the first glance
But reading this Thread one might get the impression that its fairly simple.
Russians are Orcs and rapists and this whole situation can only be accounted to the wrongdoings of one person. Putin.
While its true that the Invasion cant be justified everything up to the point of this escalation isnt solely to blame on Russia.Since its independence Ukraine has always been a divided country with the Russian speaking part in the east and the Ukrainian speaking part in the west. Historically the Donbass and Crimea have their roots in Russia and the russian speaking population there has been living there since the time of the cossacks and domestication of the khanate in that Area.
Since its independence these parts didnt grow together sadly. In 2014 for many people in the east their democratically elected president has been ousted by a coup for the western part of the country it was a revolution. What followed didnt help with consolidation.
In the east counter protests to the maidan formed and and the crimea referendum followed. While it was illegal in the eyes of most nations this region alone voted the pro Russian party of regions with 90% in most of the elections so the vote of that referendum is at least plausible and you can say that it showed the will of the population of crimea. This isnt widely discussed however.
similarly Russia utilized on the potential for conflict in the east of the country.
In contrast Ukraine send in the army to supress the protests. Escalation evolved into a civil war that led to the russian invasion.
What certanly didnt help was the fact that the new ukrainian government armed volunteers from hooligans to far right nationalists to fight in the east. Imagine the british government handing out weapons to Millwall hooligans and the BNP its far more comparable then some might like it to be.
There was a way out that just wasnt taken, and that this way out wasnt taken isnt Russias fault as it showed some thought for once during the process of minsk 2. However certain armed nationalistic elements simply refused to follow orders in the east, the negotiated withdrawl never happened. This crtainly isnt zelensky fault as he campainged with the promise to end the war and got support even from the east of the country. There is even a video of him visiting the volunteer batallions. where they argue about withdrawl.Then in 2019 the new language law further scrutinized the east and ultimatively the whole process of federalization was never utilized while this might have saved the country.

While we are talking about the war what we fail to realize is that the countrys situation is getting worse and worse.
The Cameras and Newspapers dont really show this as it isnt in theit intrest but everyday the armed forces of Ukraine are getting weaker.
They lack artillery, they lack heavy weapons, they lack aviation.
Its looking fine until it isnt fine anymore and there might be the chance that they are in for a major collapse. Their troops in the east are nearing encirclement. theyve already mobilized what they could and they are loosing their best men fast.
Surely Russia has underestimated the enemy and lost Soldiers as well but the Number of Guns and artillery they can muster is overwhelming the Ukrainian armed forces as we speak.
They cant wins this militarily, two hundered towed artillery pieces or 12 self propelled ones arent going to change this. Its fine that they are able to be airlifted to a mountain top but the whole doctrine behind this doesnt necesscarly favour the Ukrainian Military.

From a realistic point of View they wont get out of it without conceding territory in the east.
From this point on it will only get progressively worse for them and everyone involved.
The distruction is already in the billions if not trillions.
Aknowledge that crimea is gone, offer federalization for the east and hope that russia accepts this.
This is the hard truth and the best case scenario for ukraine.

But sure if we want to discuss this with the intention of clowning I can keep posting outragues comparsions with ireland where the majority of replies here sound like a Russian talks to me about the east of Ukraine.

 

[its yourself]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529494880006840320

 

[its yourself]

Yeah you are actually right.
maybe history and politics are a little more nuanced then they seem to be at the first glance
But reading this Thread one might get the impression that its fairly simple.
Russians are Orcs and rapists and this whole situation can only be accounted to the wrongdoings of one person. Putin.
While its true that the Invasion cant be justified everything up to the point of this escalation isnt solely to blame on Russia.Since its independence Ukraine has always been a divided country with the Russian speaking part in the east and the Ukrainian speaking part in the west. Historically the Donbass and Crimea have their roots in Russia and the russian speaking population there has been living there since the time of the cossacks and domestication of the khanate in that Area.
Since its independence these parts didnt grow together sadly. In 2014 for many people in the east their democratically elected president has been ousted by a coup for the western part of the country it was a revolution. What followed didnt help with consolidation.
In the east counter protests to the maidan formed and and the crimea referendum followed. While it was illegal in the eyes of most nations this region alone voted the pro Russian party of regions with 90% in most of the elections so the vote of that referendum is at least plausible and you can say that it showed the will of the population of crimea. This isnt widely discussed however.
similarly Russia utilized on the potential for conflict in the east of the country.
In contrast Ukraine send in the army to supress the protests. Escalation evolved into a civil war that led to the russian invasion.
What certanly didnt help was the fact that the new ukrainian government armed volunteers from hooligans to far right nationalists to fight in the east. Imagine the british government handing out weapons to Millwall hooligans and the BNP its far more comparable then some might like it to be.
There was a way out that just wasnt taken, and that this way out wasnt taken isnt Russias fault as it showed some thought for once during the process of minsk 2. However certain armed nationalistic elements simply refused to follow orders in the east, the negotiated withdrawl never happened. This crtainly isnt zelensky fault as he campainged with the promise to end the war and got support even from the east of the country. There is even a video of him visiting the volunteer batallions. where they argue about withdrawl.Then in 2019 the new language law further scrutinized the east and ultimatively the whole process of federalization was never utilized while this might have saved the country.

While we are talking about the war what we fail to realize is that the countrys situation is getting worse and worse.
The Cameras and Newspapers dont really show this as it isnt in theit intrest but everyday the armed forces of Ukraine are getting weaker.
They lack artillery, they lack heavy weapons, they lack aviation.
Its looking fine until it isnt fine anymore and there might be the chance that they are in for a major collapse. Their troops in the east are nearing encirclement. theyve already mobilized what they could and they are loosing their best men fast.
Surely Russia has underestimated the enemy and lost Soldiers as well but the Number of Guns and artillery they can muster is overwhelming the Ukrainian armed forces as we speak.
They cant wins this militarily, two hundered towed artillery pieces or 12 self propelled ones arent going to change this. Its fine that they are able to be airlifted to a mountain top but the whole doctrine behind this doesnt necesscarly favour the Ukrainian Military.

From a realistic point of View they wont get out of it without conceding territory in the east.
From this point on it will only get progressively worse for them and everyone involved.
The distruction is already in the billions if not trillions.
Aknowledge that crimea is gone, offer federalization for the east and hope that russia accepts this.
This is the hard truth and the best case scenario for ukraine.

But sure if we want to discuss this with the intention of clowning I can keep posting outragues comparsions with ireland where the majority of replies here sound like a Russian talks to me about the east of Ukraine.

A "German" with a pro death squad pro genocide and pro annexation viewpoint. Realistic?

 

[arcobob]

A "German" with a pro death squad pro genocide and pro annexation viewpoint. Realistic?

It has been seen before.

 

[BrianV]

Yeah you are actually right.
maybe history and politics are a little more nuanced then they seem to be at the first glance
But reading this Thread one might get the impression that its fairly simple.
Russians are Orcs and rapists and this whole situation can only be accounted to the wrongdoings of one person. Putin.
While its true that the Invasion cant be justified everything up to the point of this escalation isnt solely to blame on Russia.Since its independence Ukraine has always been a divided country with the Russian speaking part in the east and the Ukrainian speaking part in the west. Historically the Donbass and Crimea have their roots in Russia and the russian speaking population there has been living there since the time of the cossacks and domestication of the khanate in that Area.
Since its independence these parts didnt grow together sadly. In 2014 for many people in the east their democratically elected president has been ousted by a coup for the western part of the country it was a revolution. What followed didnt help with consolidation.
In the east counter protests to the maidan formed and and the crimea referendum followed. While it was illegal in the eyes of most nations this region alone voted the pro Russian party of regions with 90% in most of the elections so the vote of that referendum is at least plausible and you can say that it showed the will of the population of crimea. This isnt widely discussed however.
similarly Russia utilized on the potential for conflict in the east of the country.
In contrast Ukraine send in the army to supress the protests. Escalation evolved into a civil war that led to the russian invasion.
What certanly didnt help was the fact that the new ukrainian government armed volunteers from hooligans to far right nationalists to fight in the east. Imagine the british government handing out weapons to Millwall hooligans and the BNP its far more comparable then some might like it to be.
There was a way out that just wasnt taken, and that this way out wasnt taken isnt Russias fault as it showed some thought for once during the process of minsk 2. However certain armed nationalistic elements simply refused to follow orders in the east, the negotiated withdrawl never happened. This crtainly isnt zelensky fault as he campainged with the promise to end the war and got support even from the east of the country. There is even a video of him visiting the volunteer batallions. where they argue about withdrawl.Then in 2019 the new language law further scrutinized the east and ultimatively the whole process of federalization was never utilized while this might have saved the country.

While we are talking about the war what we fail to realize is that the countrys situation is getting worse and worse.
The Cameras and Newspapers dont really show this as it isnt in theit intrest but everyday the armed forces of Ukraine are getting weaker.
They lack artillery, they lack heavy weapons, they lack aviation.
Its looking fine until it isnt fine anymore and there might be the chance that they are in for a major collapse. Their troops in the east are nearing encirclement. theyve already mobilized what they could and they are loosing their best men fast.
Surely Russia has underestimated the enemy and lost Soldiers as well but the Number of Guns and artillery they can muster is overwhelming the Ukrainian armed forces as we speak.
They cant wins this militarily, two hundered towed artillery pieces or 12 self propelled ones arent going to change this. Its fine that they are able to be airlifted to a mountain top but the whole doctrine behind this doesnt necesscarly favour the Ukrainian Military.

From a realistic point of View they wont get out of it without conceding territory in the east.
From this point on it will only get progressively worse for them and everyone involved.
The distruction is already in the billions if not trillions.
Aknowledge that crimea is gone, offer federalization for the east and hope that russia accepts this.
This is the hard truth and the best case scenario for ukraine.

But sure if we want to discuss this with the intention of clowning I can keep posting outragues comparsions with ireland where the majority of replies here sound like a Russian talks to me about the east of Ukraine.

That's a very realistic assessment & no mater how much we may wish it was different it will end with Ukraine giving up more of their country than they originally needed to when a settlement is finally agreed.

 

[arcobob]

That's a very realistic assessment & no mater how much we may wish it was different it will end with Ukraine giving up more of their country than they originally needed to when a settlement is finally agreed.

Are you familiar with the Treaty of Paris 1856 and the ceding of Crimea in 1954 by the Soviets to Ukraine ?. Whatever the outcome this will not be the last we see of conflict in this area. The moral high ground is held by Ukraine and the Russians are agressors. How could you expect Ukranians to ever forget what is happening?

 

[German]

A "German" with a pro death squad pro genocide and pro annexation viewpoint. Realistic?

death squad= Black and Tans
genocide= irish famine just like the holodomor
Annexation= Northern ireland.

 

[German]

Are you familiar with the Treaty of Paris 1856 and the ceding of Crimea in 1954 by the Soviets to Ukraine ?. Whatever the outcome this will not be the last we see of conflict in this area. The moral high ground is held by Ukraine and the Russians are agressors. How could you expect Ukranians to ever forget what is happening?

If the People of Crimea want to be part of Russia and that was undeniably the case if you like it or not then they should be able decide their own fate.

And could you explain how the Traty of paris is relevant to the current situation?
Does it somehow say that crimea belongs to Ukraine before the country even existed or was it primarily an imperialistic gamble between major powers?


Or are you building a case here so that Britain could recolonize Ireland via morale high ground against the wishes of the population?

 

[BrianV]

Are you familiar with the Treaty of Paris 1856 and the ceding of Crimea in 1954 by the Soviets to Ukraine ?. Whatever the outcome this will not be the last we see of conflict in this area. The moral high ground is held by Ukraine and the Russians are agressors. How could you expect Ukranians to ever forget what is happening?

Have we forgiven the Germans or Japanese or have the Japanese forgiven us for nuclear bombs, life is never going to be perfect & neither now is Ukraine for a very long time!
Hell even the Irish still can't forget but life still goes on. Morals are something very few really have in reality.

 

[German]

Are you familiar with the Treaty of Paris 1856 and the ceding of Crimea in 1954 by the Soviets to Ukraine ?. Whatever the outcome this will not be the last we see of conflict in this area. The moral high ground is held by Ukraine and the Russians are agressors. How could you expect Ukranians to ever forget what is happening?

While you are at it, you could also explain what happened before Crimea was gifted to Ukraine and immediately after Ukraines independence from the Soviet Union. Especially about a planned referendum.

 

[arcobob]

While you are at it, you could also explain what happened before Crimea was gifted to Ukraine and immediately after Ukraines independence from the Soviet Union. Especially about a planned referendum.

Sorry but I never heard of a referendum but if it took place was it legitimate, impartial and idepedently ratified? I am sorry but we are dealing with a barrel of skunks. The Crimea is and has always been a strategic prize and always will be. The Russians will not let this rest and as aggressors and expansionists it is vital to them.

 

[German]

Sorry but I never heard of a referendum but if it took place was it legitimate, impaetial nand idepedently ratified? I am sorry but we are dealing with a barrel of skunks.

Exactly Skunks,
the central government in Kiev called it off.
"On 5 May 1992, the Crimean legislature declared conditional independence,[53] but a referendum to confirm the decision was never held amid opposition from Kyiv: elected president of Crimea Yuriy Meshkov, was replaced by Kyiv-appointed Anatoliy Franchuk, which was done with the intent to rein in Crimean aspirations of autonomy.[51][54] The Verkhovna Rada, the parliament of Crimea, voted to grant Crimea "extensive home rule" during the dispute.[52][53]"

Its not only that its the results of every single election till 2014.

 

[its yourself]

death squad= Black and Tans
genocide= irish famine just like the holodomor
Annexation= Northern ireland.

 

[German]

View attachment 1038475

Iconic post considering that you bought up Germany and genocide after my post.
Cheers

 

[its yourself]

Did you forget your username there for a minute?