The war in Ukraine...

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
Let's assume you are right, what does a compromise look like? It surely can't be giving away land because how would you deal with the people that have been displaced? They can go back to their homes but they now have to live under Putin?
Now it would seem the least worst option would be an agreement guaranteed by the US that Ukraine will not join NATO, independence for the Donbas region & Russia keeping Crimea, I‘m afraid I really can’t see Russia now ever agreeing to anything less whatever the eventual cost will be to them!
I fear many UkraInIans will not want to go back to the unsafe tragic mess that will be left behind when it’s all over, as time goes by & this slowly gets worse your average Ukrainian will turn his hatred towards the Ukrainian leadership, the US & the UK for their parts in this tragedy!
 
Just agree with whatever putin wants, some of these people who stick up for someone like him beggars belief
Really. I'm a 100% behind Russia. It was the USA who. in effect, overthrew the legitimate Ukrainian government in 2014, encouraged the nazis, built bioweapon labs there and pushed for the expansion of NATO contrary to previous unsderstandings, Russia only did what they said they would if the red line was crossed.

I suggest that you listen to Professor John Mearsheimer who is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He has been described as the most influential realist of his generation.



But, never mind, the self inflicted damage is mind boggling with J P morgan saying oil could go to $380 a barrel

 
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manhill

Member
My father fought in Korea so I’m not against it and if I was called up to fight for our own country I’d go (unlike some on here who would give it away) although I might b abit to old
Seems to be a lot of elderly Ukrainians fighting so join up and don't be a shrinking violet! My local militia will be issuing rifles , what would you prefer Lee Enfield 303 or an SLR?
 

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
Really. I'm a 100% behind Russia. It was the USA who. in effect, who overthrew the legitimate Ukrainian government in 2014,encouraged the nazis, built bioweapon labs there and pushed for the expansion of NATO contrary to previous unsderstandings, Russia only did what they said they would if the red line was crossed.

I suggest that you listen to Professor John Mearsheimer who is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He has been described as the most influential realist of his generation.

The US & UK leadership are right up to their necks in this crime of the century.
 

manhill

Member
Really. I'm a 100% behind Russia. It was the USA who. in effect, overthrew the legitimate Ukrainian government in 2014, encouraged the nazis, built bioweapon labs there and pushed for the expansion of NATO contrary to previous unsderstandings, Russia only did what they said they would if the red line was crossed.

I suggest that you listen to Professor John Mearsheimer who is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He has been described as the most influential realist of his generation.



But, never mind, the self inflicted damage is mind boggling with J P morgan saying oil could go to $380 a barrel


100% behind Russia?? Bet you won't wear the underpants they send you for Christmas, just in case their targeting is a bit off!
 

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
All governments make big commitments at COP 26 & want to drastically reduce fuel & energy consumption, no problem at all just start a war with the biggest producer of energy & then blame it all on them rather then our own governments, it's very simple isn't it!!!
 

German

Member
Mixed Farmer
Let's assume you are right, what does a compromise look like? It surely can't be giving away land because how would you deal with the people that have been displaced? They can go back to their homes but they now have to live under Putin?
That's exactly what would have to be done.
Recognition of Crimea as Russia by Ukraine. Recognition of Independence of LPR and DPR

That would probably be the minimum they have to give up.
Militarily speaking, they can't amass forces for an offensive they have trouble plucking the holes in their defensive lines with territorial defense units and hastily trained Soldiers

But you see that different for months already
 

German

Member
Mixed Farmer
Really. I'm a 100% behind Russia. It was the USA who. in effect, overthrew the legitimate Ukrainian government in 2014, encouraged the nazis, built bioweapon labs there and pushed for the expansion of NATO contrary to previous unsderstandings, Russia only did what they said they would if the red line was crossed.
While it is true that America was certainly involved during the 2014 Euromaidan protests, it isn't like Russia didn't try to destabilize every Ukrainian Government that didn't follow their interests.
Going so far that they even poisoned Juschtschenko.
Placed Agents in the East to destabilize and lead counterprotests.
The whole bioweapons' thing is overblown and a NATO expansion isn't a reason to invade another Country.
Maybe overthink the imperialist meddling of both America with NATO as their tool and Russia.
Without it, Ukraine wouldn't be where it is now.
 
Now it would seem the least worst option would be an agreement guaranteed by the US that Ukraine will not join NATO, independence for the Donbas region & Russia keeping Crimea, I‘m afraid I really can’t see Russia now ever agreeing to anything less whatever the eventual cost will be to them!
I fear many UkraInIans will not want to go back to the unsafe tragic mess that will be left behind when it’s all over, as time goes by & this slowly gets worse your average Ukrainian will turn his hatred towards the Ukrainian leadership, the US & the UK for their parts in this tragedy!
Yes just like people from industrial northern cities in WW2.

They hated Churchill

NOT they hated Hitler all the more & fought harder. But then voted for Atlee for a new start, once Hitler was beaten.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Yes just like people from industrial northern cities in WW2.

They hated Churchill

NOT they hated Hitler all the more & fought harder. But then voted for Atlee for a new start, once Hitler was beaten.
I recently finished a very good biography - probably the best one - about Ernest Bevin; nobody could claim that he was anything but a proper Labour man. Nonetheless, Bevin was absolutely convinced that regardless of his political differences with Churchill at a national level - and they were many - he was most certainly the right man in the right place at the right time. Bevin was astonished that he was brought into the tiny War Cabinet, and he was completely loyal to Churchill throughout his premiership - I think this speaks volumes for the qualities of both men.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
The Ukrainian military does apparently have the same "precision" weapons the Russians are using. Ex Soviet anti ship missiles. Should they use them on military targets in Moscow? There are a large number of "legitimate military targets" there.
One of the strongest weapons Ukraine has is that of its public relations machine. This was founded on the fact that the Ukrainians were entirely in the right; so no, they shouldn't hit Moscow or any other civilian target - what would then separate them morally from what the Russians are doing?

They must stick to military targets only, all inside Ukraine, and carefully selected ones elsewhere.
 
The Ukrainian military does apparently have the same "precision" weapons the Russians are using. Ex Soviet anti ship missiles. Should they use them on military targets in Moscow? There are a large number of "legitimate military targets" there.

They should use them on targets that will gain them the most advantage militarily.
 
Really. I'm a 100% behind Russia. It was the USA who. in effect, overthrew the legitimate Ukrainian government in 2014, encouraged the nazis, built bioweapon labs there and pushed for the expansion of NATO contrary to previous unsderstandings, Russia only did what they said they would if the red line was crossed.

I suggest that you listen to Professor John Mearsheimer who is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He has been described as the most influential realist of his generation.



But, never mind, the self inflicted damage is mind boggling with J P morgan saying oil could go to $380 a barrel


What bioweapon labs?

Why would the USA need to build bioweapon labs in Ukraine? Have they run out of space or something?
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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