The war in Ukraine...

[Hindsight]

Why would I be cynical, this war with Russia has been planned for quite some time, always planning to use Ukraine as foot soldiers.

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But Brian, Mr Putin and Russia didn't have to bite old chap. Having bitten they and we can hardly complain. You portray continuously the USA as the bad guy and poor old Putin as the scapegoat because he wouldn't back down in some bizarre game of 'dare'. But keep arguing your case as the truth will always out.

 

[Hindsight]

Freedom of speech in a democratic society, did we not attack Iraq in order to spread such democracy and Freedom?

My friend, I didn't say Mr Lynch should be denied his democratic right to free speech. Just the opposite. I am pleased he has let us know his thoughts on the war in Ukraine and his thoughts and views of the involvement of the EU. Before his comments I considered him a devious and dangerous man. Not the media savvy union leader portrayed. I am doubly sure now.

 

[BrianV]

But Brian, Mr Putin and Russia didn't have to bite old chap. Having bitten they and we can hardly complain. You portray continuously the USA as the bad guy and poor old Putin as the scapegoat because he wouldn't back down in some bizarre game of 'dare'. But keep arguing your case as the truth will always out.

As America & the UK found when they marched their armies into the middle of the scorching dessert in late spring to pressure Saddam into climbing down on giving up none existent weapons, there unfortunately comes a point when you either have to put up or shut up if you want to survive!

 

[kiwi pom]

They

Are you serious.
If nato went in with total commitment, putrid lot wouldn't have a hope.

They would win in no time, Russia would be set back decades.

So the question becomes why haven't they? Why leave Ukraine by themselves?
On day one Biden publicly said No American troops (I'm sure he didn't mean SF) will be in Ukraine fighting. Didn't exactly help Zelensky did it?

They're not fighting because they don't need to, America wins either way. Ukraine eventually pushes Russia back, Putin's military is set back decades and the US now own Ukraine (I'm not sure the average Ukrainian has figured that bit out yet) as they repay their debt.
If Russia take control it will be with a high cost to them as they rebuild their military. Europe has increased its military spending and moved away from ties with Russia instead of closer and the US military has tons of information on its own equipment's abilities as well as Russia's. Its weapons manufacturers will have full order books too.
All without US lives lost.

 

[Hindsight]

As America & the UK found when they marched their armies into the middle of the scorching dessert in late spring to pressure Saddam into climbing down on giving up none existent weapons, there unfortunately comes a point when you either have to put up or shut up if you want to survive!

Your view and background story has other supporters. On The Times comment section there are regular contributors that say the same. Biden's USA taunted Russia and goaded Russia into a proxy war. As on here most replies take an alternative view. Hey ho.

 

[Hindsight]

They would win in no time, Russia would be set back decades.

So the question becomes why haven't they? Why leave Ukraine by themselves?
On day one Biden publicly said No American troops (I'm sure he didn't mean SF) will be in Ukraine fighting. Didn't exactly help Zelensky did it?

They're not fighting because they don't need to, America wins either way. Ukraine eventually pushes Russia back, Putin's military is set back decades and the US now own Ukraine (I'm not sure the average Ukrainian has figured that bit out yet) as they repay their debt.
If Russia take control it will be with a high cost to them as they rebuild their military. Europe has increased its military spending and moved away from ties with Russia instead of closer and the US military has tons of information on its own equipment's abilities as well as Russia's. Its weapons manufacturers will have full order books too.
All without US lives lost.

I am fascinated by folk such as your self on here who take the opposite view and regard the USA as the 'bad actor'. Would you have had USA, UK and other countries turn a blind eye and not supply any military equipment.

 

[kiwi pom]

I am fascinated by folk such as your self on here who take the opposite view and regard the USA as the 'bad actor'. Would you have had USA, UK and other countries turn a blind eye and not supply any military equipment.

I don't for a second consider America as the "bad guys" here, stop twisting things. I was saying they are in a win win situation without putting the lives of US soldiers at risk.
Do you disagree with that?


US foreign policy seems to be to stick their nose in other countries business. To what degree depends what they can get out of it. That's why they have over 750 military bases around the world. They need to justify the existence of them to their tax payers.
Anyone else do that?
I see they're back in Taiwan today, poking their nose in. Whether they intend to wind China up or not, there's no doubt that's what's happening.
Why not just say we'll help if we need to, until then we're staying out of it?

 

[Hindsight]

I don't for a second consider America as the "bad guys" here, stop twisting things. I was saying they are in a win win situation without putting the lives of US soldiers at risk.
Do you disagree with that?


US foreign policy seems to be to stick their nose in other countries business. To what degree depends what they can get out of it. That's why they have over 750 military bases around the world. They need to justify the existence of them to their tax payers.
Anyone else do that?
I see they're back in Taiwan today, poking their nose in. Whether they intend to wind China up or not, there's no doubt that's what's happening.
Why not just say we'll help if we need to, until then we're staying out of it?

No attempt to 'twist things' Just trying to understand your position.

Why not just say we'll help if we need to, until then we're staying out of it? what are you views of the Chinese 'Belt and Roads' policy and possible debt entrapment of smaller nations, nations maybe for internal political reasons attempting got distance from USA.

On balance the US attempts to do so, but it is the nature of international affairs they will often look as though interfering to those observers wo wish to think so. But each to their own views.

World is complicated. Can look straightforward from countries such as UK, and maybe New Zealand, though I have no knowledge of NZ, so that is pure supposition on my part.

 

[kiwi pom]

No attempt to 'twist things' Just trying to understand your position.

Why not just say we'll help if we need to, until then we're staying out of it? On balance the US attempts to do so, but it is the nature of international affairs they will often look as though interfering to those observers wo wish to think so. But each to their own views.

I don't really have a position just commenting on what I see. I certainly can't do or say anything to change things. If that makes people think I'm on someones side, so be it.
What do you think about Americas involvement in Ukraine, are they doing enough?
Do you think their recent visits to Taiwan are achieving anything other than winding China up?

 

[Treg]

I don't really have a position just commenting on what I see. I certainly can't do or say anything to change things. If that makes people think I'm on someones side, so be it.
What do you think about Americas involvement in Ukraine, are they doing enough?
Do you think their recent visits to Taiwan are achieving anything other than winding China up?

Maybe making Taiwanese people feel their not alone

 

[BrianV]

Maybe making Taiwanese people feel their not alone

Or maybe they look at Ukraine & see their future unfolding, the US winding up China until something breaks & then let the Taiwanese fight America’s war for them?

 

[Treg]

Or maybe they look at Ukraine & see their future unfolding, the US winding up China until something breaks & then let the Taiwanese fight America’s war for them?

Or maybe we could leave them alone and let them get invaded , nice.
What a lovely cosy world we live in when people are unprepared to protect others.

 

[BrianV]

Or maybe we could leave them alone and let them get invaded , nice.
What a lovely cosy world we live in when people are unprepared to protect others.

Maybe look back over the last 60 years & see which country has done the most invading of other countries, been involved in most wars & spends by far & away the most on their military.

 

[arcobob]

Maybe look back over the last 60 years & see which country has done the most invading of other countries, been involved in most wars & spends by far & away the most on their military.

Perhaps you would like to tell us and explain why.

 

[BrianV]

Perhaps you would like to tell us and explain why.

DEATH TOLL FROM MODERN AMERICAN WARS

The death toll of over 12 million in America's wars for freedom: wars in Korea, Vietnam and The War on Terror in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan

www.worldfuturefund.org

 

[kiwi pom]

Maybe making Taiwanese people feel their not alone

They could do that in a press conference, no need for a special trip.

 

[quattro]

Suggest you wait & ask the Ukrainians whether it was all worth it simply to be able to join a NATO that doesn't want them when it's all finally over & you will get a truer answer, if you can't see this is all driven by the Americans then there is no hope!

You ever wondered when they beat Russia and they will;
they maybe won’t need to join NATO

 

[arcobob]

Maybe making Taiwanese people feel their not alone

Neither China nor Russia or the two combined could not attack directly or win a war against the US. They puff their chests out and make a lot of noise as soon as the US shows support and friendship to someone on their doorstep. The Chinese government is a little smarter than Putin. He is actually sacrificing the future of his country and people in a personal ego trip, at the same time showing no humanity. I see he is now cosying up to North Korea. That really is a joke, but then he is that irrational.

 

[BrianV]

You ever wondered when they beat Russia and they will;
they maybe won’t need to join NATO

America has no intention of "beating" Russia as it's bad for business!

 

[linga]

Why would I be cynical, this war with Russia has been planned for quite some time, always planning to use Ukraine as foot soldiers.

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World socialist Forum!
Might that story have an inbuilt bias ?