The working class

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
The article contains a kernel of truth, but its written from the perspective that the Left is generally right and good, and the Right generally wrong and bad. And as such contains the very thing that is repelling the working classes. The working classes have not changed, the Left has changed. The views that were mainstream Labour party views as recently as the 1990s would now get you 'cancelled' as an evil racist sexist misogynist dinosaur. Thats why the working classes are turning to the Tories, the Left has moved so far left every Labour Prime Minister there has ever been would now be considered a fascist.

And the idea that Tories in the UK are 'hard right' is laughable, it is another thing the Left have done to drive voters away, to demonise EVERYONE that disagrees with them, and make them into bad people. Boris is not by any objective assessment a racist, or a fascist dictator. Yet the left call him every name under the sun. And anyone who even thinks about voting for anyone other than the Left is treated likewise. Hint - if you abuse the voters they will not vote for you!

I can't see any way out of this - the Left have decided that politics is just another facet of morality, that anyone who disagrees with you politically is a bad person with evil intent, and they and they alone have the morally correct view about everything. Once you have that mindset you can no longer have shades of grey, you have stark black and white, everyone must either for for you or against you. And how can you appeal to the undecided voter with such rhetoric? By definition the undecided voter can see good in either camp, so if you say 'Hey, if you even think about voting for X you're a [insert any -ism you like]' then they will think 'Well I thought about voting for X, so you're calling me a [-ist]. F*** you.'
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
The article contains a kernel of truth, but its written from the perspective that the Left is generally right and good, and the Right generally wrong and bad. And as such contains the very thing that is repelling the working classes. The working classes have not changed, the Left has changed. The views that were mainstream Labour party views as recently as the 1990s would now get you 'cancelled' as an evil racist sexist misogynist dinosaur. Thats why the working classes are turning to the Tories, the Left has moved so far left every Labour Prime Minister there has ever been would now be considered a fascist.

And the idea that Tories in the UK are 'hard right' is laughable, it is another thing the Left have done to drive voters away, to demonise EVERYONE that disagrees with them, and make them into bad people. Boris is not by any objective assessment a racist, or a fascist dictator. Yet the left call him every name under the sun. And anyone who even thinks about voting for anyone other than the Left is treated likewise. Hint - if you abuse the voters they will not vote for you!

I can't see any way out of this - the Left have decided that politics is just another facet of morality, that anyone who disagrees with you politically is a bad person with evil intent, and they and they alone have the morally correct view about everything. Once you have that mindset you can no longer have shades of grey, you have stark black and white, everyone must either for for you or against you. And how can you appeal to the undecided voter with such rhetoric? By definition the undecided voter can see good in either camp, so if you say 'Hey, if you even think about voting for X you're a [insert any -ism you like]' then they will think 'Well I thought about voting for X, so you're calling me a [-ist]. F*** you.'
I actually agree with you and it's why I raised the topic.
As a I put in brackets , is there a working class in the old sense of the world?.
There's certainly a non- working class, those that are the children of those that have never had a job.
Why if you are good at driving a digger ( pick what ever) are you less " worth" than a manager at ( again)?
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
is there a working class in the old sense of the world?.
Not in the old sense that 'the working class' worked with their hands on the factory floor, and 'the middle class' worked in offices. Technology has moved on to such an extent that manual labour is required far less than it was, so the concept of 'the working class' as horny handed sons of toil no longer exists. The man sat in a digger cab may well have as soft a hands as the office worker, and indeed be better paid.

Working class today means you work for a living, vs the people who don't work at all, which itself splits into 2, those who don't work because they are paid by the State, ie on benefits, or those rich enough not to work. Thats the basic divide in society today - do you have to get up in the morning to be at a place of work or not? If you do you're working class. If you don't you're you're not. I suppose you could characterise it as the producers vs the consumers.

Edit: @ollie989898 beat me to it with a far more precise analysis :LOL: :LOL:
 
Not in the old sense that 'the working class' worked with their hands on the factory floor, and 'the middle class' worked in offices. Technology has moved on to such an extent that manual labour is required far less than it was, so the concept of 'the working class' as horny handed sons of toil no longer exists. The man sat in a digger cab may well have as soft a hands as the office worker, and indeed be better paid.

Working class today means you work for a living, vs the people who don't work at all, which itself splits into 2, those who don't work because they are paid by the State, ie on benefits, or those rich enough not to work. Thats the basic divide in society today - do you have to get up in the morning to be at a place of work or not? If you do you're working class. If you don't you're you're not. I suppose you could characterise it as the producers vs the consumers.

Edit: @ollie989898 beat me to it with a far more precise analysis :LOL: :LOL:
The reality is that people with skills who are prepared to graft can now earn themselves big money, anything between 50-100K PA in some circumstances and well within or even beyond the grasp of middle managers which private enterprise these days is largely unable to bear the cost of. Only in the public sector will you find managers on this kind of money.

If you want anything beyond this bracket you need skills, serious professional training, or both.

I know one thing, I have way more opportunity in front of me than my father's generation did.
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
The reality is that people with skills who are prepared to graft can now earn themselves big money, anything between 50-100K PA in some circumstances and well within or even beyond the grasp of middle managers which private enterprise these days is largely unable to bear the cost of. Only in the public sector will you find managers on this kind of money.

If you want anything beyond this bracket you need skills, serious professional training, or both.

I know one thing, I have way more opportunity in front of me than my father's generation did.
I agree but where does that leave farmers?.
Many earn nothing like that sort of money. Asset rich but cash poor, work hard but don't have cash to flash.
I know my kids have a better opportunity than we had.
 
I agree but where does that leave farmers?.
Many earn nothing like that sort of money. Asset rich but cash poor, work hard but don't have cash to flash.
I know my kids have a better opportunity than we had.
Farmers are in the business of producing a commodity product in a global marketplace. Some of them may add value. Others may have multiple income streams. Either way, their asset bases increases in value every year. I doubt the Morrisons distribution hub at Bridgewater can say the same and comes with a big fat minus on it's balance sheet each year?
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
Farmers are in the business of producing a commodity product in a global marketplace. Some of them may add value. Others may have multiple income streams. Either way, their asset bases increases in value every year. I doubt the Morrisons distribution hub at Bridgewater can say the same and comes with a big fat minus on it's balance sheet each year?
So... Should the family farm pack up?
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Picked this out. Basically if you remove the jobs the ‘working class’ do ( heavy industry, mining etc). They don’t cease to exist but they cease to be a homogeneous group and as such they lose their dignity and their power so they and their political allies lose their relevance. Labour as a party no longer have anything to offer the population as there now is a welfare state and there is an NHS etc. Now people are not voting for the future they’re voting for the present.
 
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Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
If you identify socialism with the left and the working class then you are only a hairs breadth away from Fascism. The Nazi party, arguably the farthest right of any regime in history, started off as the National Socialist German Workers Party. Look at China, a communist country, so far left, but a more totalitarian authority you couldn’t imagine.

Then take people like Arthur Scargill, More red than a baboons arse, but speak to people with a bit of intelligence from Barnsley and they will tell you just how close to fascism Scargill was.

Politics is confusing and complex, people who write these articles try and simplify for their own narrative ‘right = bad, left = good’

But is the working class gone? I don’t think so, all the families that went through the closure of mines and shipyards are still there, they have just adapted and moved on, the political left haven’t, in this country anyways.
 

Fromebridge

Member
BASIS
Location
Glos
Communism is a fallacy, it has always been used by a select few to dupe and hence suppress the masses. Every communist state has followed the Animal Farm model.
Fascism was invented by Mussolini as a local form of communism. All these terms are pointless labels, the feudal system is the only one that has worked for any length of time: it reflects the nature of humanity.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
If you identify socialism with the left and the working class then you are only a hairs breadth away from Fascism. The Nazi party, arguably the farthest right of any regime in history, started off as the National Socialist German Workers Party. Look at China, a communist country, so far left, but a more totalitarian authority you couldn’t imagine.

Then take people like Arthur Scargill, More red than a baboons arse, but speak to people with a bit of intelligence from Barnsley and they will tell you just how close to fascism Scargill was.

Politics is confusing and complex, people who write these articles try and simplify for their own narrative ‘right = bad, left = good’

But is the working class gone? I don’t think so, all the families that went through the closure of mines and shipyards are still there, they have just adapted and moved on, the political left haven’t, in this country anyways.
The type of people who made up the working class haven’t gone but they are no longer a distinct group due the decline and fragmentation of old industry. Now they may be brewing your coffee rather than mining your coal but the fact that you don’t get several thousand of them working in one place makes it look like they’ve gone. Socialist Governments and organizations are much keener on control of the masses than others although they make it look as though it’s being done for the benefit of society rather than as the type of undemocatic behavior it is. New Zealand is a prime example and closer to home the actions of the SNP and the Welsh Assembly.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Farmers are in the business of producing a commodity product in a global marketplace. Some of them may add value. Others may have multiple income streams. Either way, their asset bases increases in value every year. I doubt the Morrisons distribution hub at Bridgewater can say the same and comes with a big fat minus on it's balance sheet each year?
Landowning farmers yes
There are many others
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
You have probably missed out a very large class. Those that don't need to!
I don't think there's that many of those. In order to be able to live off you own wealth (not live off payments made by the State in the form of benefits or pensions) you need a lot of capital. And given most people's capital is tied up in their house, not many people are in that class of people. Certainly not enough to have any political clout at the ballot box anyway.

Now one could argue that although they are small in number they have a disproportionately large effect on politics via because of their wealth. Thats undoubtedly true. But the fact remains that they are VERY small in number and can be outvoted at the ballot box in a trice, should the rest of society decide to do so.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
The old working class has disappeared completely, along with the industry which employed it on a massive scale. For most of them it was never the trampled oppression of the classic left wing text books, but a comfortable allusion which maintained their dull repetitious life in factories or mine where they knew they had a job for life if they kept their nose clean. They never had a lot , but until the advent of Television as long as they had enough for a few pints on a Saturday night after the football they were relatively content. They may not have had much but they were a lot better off than millions of Johnny Foreigner.
However with the fall of heavy industry the mines and increasing mechanisation elsewhere, we have now got a new underclass, one which had been there in a very big way in all industries until unionisation had virtually wiped it out, the day labourer. Now we again have masses working with no guarantee of work the next day, many earn quite a good living and are very happy in their lot. They drive your taxi, meaning car ownership particularly in cities is dropping, make your beds in the hotels, serve the food and wine. However this new class has absolutely no connection to the left leaning, liberal minded latte drinking customers paying a fiver for the coffee, who believe it is demeaning to tip the pretty young waitress or even to compliment her ( or him ) .
This right on set ( or should that be left on ;) ) have completely alienated those who, if the truth were told, they consider completely beneath them. From the early days of socialism , this issue was recognised and has been been a battle ground in parties of the left, the current Labour Party has a long way to go to get back its voter base, however history tells us a week is very long time in politics.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
This right on set ( or should that be left on ;) ) have completely alienated those who, if the truth were told, they consider completely beneath them. From the early days of socialism , this issue was recognised and has been been a battle ground in parties of the left, the current Labour Party has a long way to go to get back its voter base, however history tells us a week is very long time in politics.
Its noticeable that the people who created the Labour Movement were working class themselves, but as soon as they had created a political movement that was capable of obtaining power at the ballot box the middle classes moved in. You went from having Labour MPs who had been miners and dockers and railwaymen to having middle class public school and university educated ones. That process started post war and has continued ever since. Who was the last true working class minister in a Labour government? John Prescott I'd say, and he was only kept as a sort of pet by the middle class types who were utterly in control of Labour by the 90s.

Labour is now the party of university educated middle class State employees, and as such represents their interests above all else.
 

AGCO reports sales increase of 43.5% compared to 2020 figures

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Written by Agriland Team from Agriland

The tractor manufacturer AGCO, which consists of brands such as Challenger, Fendt, GSI, Massey Ferguson and Valtra, reported its results for the second quarter ending June 30, 2021.

Net sales for the second quarter were approximately $2.9 billion, an increase of approximately 43.5% compared to the second quarter of 2020.

AEM

Reported net income was $3.73/share for the second quarter of 2021, and adjusted...
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