The working class

[Lowland1]

Its noticeable that the people who created the Labour Movement were working class themselves, but as soon as they had created a political movement that was capable of obtaining power at the ballot box the middle classes moved in. You went from having Labour MPs who had been miners and dockers and railwaymen to having middle class public school and university educated ones. That process started post war and has continued ever since. Who was the last true working class minister in a Labour government? John Prescott I'd say, and he was only kept as a sort of pet by the middle class types who were utterly in control of Labour by the 90s.

Labour is now the party of university educated middle class State employees, and as such represents their interests above all else.

Politics is about power nothing else really.

 

[Exfarmer]

Its noticeable that the people who created the Labour Movement were working class themselves, but as soon as they had created a political movement that was capable of obtaining power at the ballot box the middle classes moved in. You went from having Labour MPs who had been miners and dockers and railwaymen to having middle class public school and university educated ones. That process started post war and has continued ever since. Who was the last true working class minister in a Labour government? John Prescott I'd say, and he was only kept as a sort of pet by the middle class types who were utterly in control of Labour by the 90s.

Labour is now the party of university educated middle class State employees, and as such represents their interests above all else.

I would disagree, but I have not studied the issue in depth. The labour movement really originated in the Fabian societies which I guess had a Quaker background. These were often very wealthy families who had strong belief in the betterment of society. Families such as, Wilberforce, Salt, Cadbury, Fry, etc. were all behind movements for great social reform. Their strong Christian beliefs led them to push for the abolitions of lsavery first and then to go on for factory reforms and many other.
Many of the great writers from the 19th and early 20th. centuries, as were so many of the musicians etc. later all believers and members of these varied organisations which became the labour movement, and they continued to dominate. Harold Wilson was of course famously a man of the people, but actually an Oxford Don who favoured fine Whisky and cigars as opposed to his public image of beer and pipe, Healey likewise. Tony Blair was far from the first educated man in the Labour Party!
You are though correct that they have lost their roots at the bottom of the pole. Strangley of course so many of the working class northern constituencies actually voted blue until quite recent times, thanks to MP's who actually got out there and did the proper work of an MP being locally based and talking the local language.
Sadly today many think it is fine to live the high life in London and ignore their voters , just relying on the fact that the constituency will vote for any pig wearing the right rosette.
I saw this at first hand many years ago, when our very famous well loved MP who owned his own newspaper to promote him, was turfed out by a local upstart who spent a year on the stump going round knock ing on doors talking to people and making friends, come the election and Mr Maxwell was dumped in a formerly solid labour seat.

 

[Muck Spreader]

I don't think there's that many of those. In order to be able to live off you own wealth (not live off payments made by the State in the form of benefits or pensions) you need a lot of capital. And given most people's capital is tied up in their house, not many people are in that class of people. Certainly not enough to have any political clout at the ballot box anyway.

Now one could argue that although they are small in number they have a disproportionately large effect on politics via because of their wealth. Thats undoubtedly true. But the fact remains that they are VERY small in number and can be outvoted at the ballot box in a trice, should the rest of society decide to do so.

I don't think so. I am surrounded by dozens maybe hundreds of expats, possibly >80% of whom have either retired early, are sleeping partners in businesses, sold or rent properties in the UK or even illegal by claiming benefits from the UK and French states etc. There is a huge class of people out there who don't need to work. And I would suspect the hundreds of thousands that have decided to move to Europe are the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Exfarmer]

I don't think so. I am surrounded by dozens maybe hundreds of expats, possibly >80% of whom have either retired early, are sleeping partners in businesses, sold or rent properties in the UK or even illegal by claiming benefits from the UK and French states etc. There is a huge class of people out there who don't need to work. And I would suspect the hundreds of thousands that have decided to move to Europe are the tip of the iceberg.

I would tend to agree with you, know of two people well who lived and worked in Europe for years. paying little tax, slipping back to England for the NHS, one had two kids here and claimed benefits etc. while the children were in French schools! Another is I think just been kicked out of Spain. I have little sympathy for either as both loved to crow how sharp they were.

 

[Al R]

Read...
https://eand.co/why-the-working-class-is-abandoning-the-left-a19924c9d512
Discuss.
( Another thread would be... Is there a working class anymore? And who are they?)

When the upper class met the working class. The working class wanting to get on with their lives and return to their homes while the upper class have time to go to protests and hold up other people’s lives.... Again.

 

[jendan]

Communism is a fallacy, it has always been used by a select few to dupe and hence suppress the masses. Every communist state has followed the Animal Farm model.
Fascism was invented by Mussolini as a local form of communism. All these terms are pointless labels, the feudal system is the only one that has worked for any length of time: it reflects the nature of humanity.

I must remember to doff my cap and tug my forelock to Rees Mogg and Co................

 

[Lowland1]

My daughter went to school with a Rothschild but she said he wasn’t one of the really rich ones as his Dad had to work so he’d be classed as a worker.

 

[Muck Spreader]

I must remember to doff my cap and tug my forelock to Rees Mogg and Co................

I am sure Rees-Mogg wants to go back to the era were the local squire owned all the houses and farms and also was the MP of what became known as a "Rotten borough". So woe betide any tenant who failed to vote for him.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I must remember to doff my cap and tug my forelock to Rees Mogg and Co................

I am sure Rees-Mogg wants to go back to the era were the local squire owned all the houses and farms and also was the MP of what became known as a "Rotten borough". So woe betide any tenant who failed to vote for him.

This is why the Left are doing so bad.

He doesn't AND you know it AND most people would like to have the success Mogg has - including those in the Left that supposedly hate him.

2 Jags helped his son make £millions, Tony Blairs son is making £millions, the Kinnocks made £millions .. but Mogg is evil cos e's Tory. FFS grow up.

 

[fudge]

The left are doing badly because they are stuck in the past. The vast majority of people don’t need to vote Labour because the welfare state, health care, education as well as workers rights are protected by both major parties. Look at the furlough scheme a more left of center policy in response to the pandemic it’s hard to find in other countries. Huge contrast to the likes of Brazil and the USA under Trump.

 

[Lowland1]

The left are doing badly because they are stuck in the past. The vast majority of people don’t need to vote Labour because the welfare state, health care, education as well as workers rights are protected by both major parties. Look at the furlough scheme a more left of center policy in response to the pandemic it’s hard to find in other countries. Huge contrast to the likes of Brazil and the USA under Trump.

Brilliant isn’t it the Conservative party have to uphold a social welfare system that is totally against their philosophy because to try and remove it would be political suicide and Labour will struggle to ever get back in power because their work is done.

 

[essex man]

Mmm there's no need for the Tories to appeal to their own trad supporters, they have no alternative to vote for.
They have now captured enough government employees through interventionist policies like furlough, work from home, NHS worship to ensure they stay in power for a while.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Brilliant isn’t it the Conservative party have to uphold a social welfare system that is totally against their philosophy because to try and remove it would be political suicide and Labour will struggle to ever get back in power because their work is done.

The Conservative party has become the new Labour party with its a spend till you drop philosophy in order to appease its new working class disciples in the red walls, plus filling their own personal pockets at the same time. Guess who will end up paying for all this sh!t, the poor old middle class taxpayer as usual.

 

[bobk]

I don't think so. I am surrounded by dozens maybe hundreds of expats, possibly >80% of whom have either retired early, are sleeping partners in businesses, sold or rent properties in the UK or even illegal by claiming benefits from the UK and French states etc. There is a huge class of people out there who don't need to work. And I would suspect the hundreds of thousands that have decided to move to Europe are the tip of the iceberg.

This why brexit has caught them out , now needing to prove income status to reside in france , they can't qualify because their tax returns don't match , gotcha .

Conversely , there are plenty running businesses in france based in the UK with no intention of getting involved in french tax affairs

 

[Lowland1]

The Conservative party has become the new Labour party with its a spend till you drop philosophy in order to appease its new working class disciples in the red walls, plus filling their own personal pockets at the same time. Guess who will end up paying for all this sh!t, the poor old middle class taxpayer as usual.

None of the parties are staying true to traditional ideologies. I think if I set up the flatscreen party offering free TVs to all I’d clean up in any election.

 

[TechWise]

The article contains a kernel of truth, but its written from the perspective that the Left is generally right and good, and the Right generally wrong and bad. And as such contains the very thing that is repelling the working classes. The working classes have not changed, the Left has changed. The views that were mainstream Labour party views as recently as the 1990s would now get you 'cancelled' as an evil racist sexist misogynist dinosaur. Thats why the working classes are turning to the Tories, the Left has moved so far left every Labour Prime Minister there has ever been would now be considered a fascist.

And the idea that Tories in the UK are 'hard right' is laughable, it is another thing the Left have done to drive voters away, to demonise EVERYONE that disagrees with them, and make them into bad people. Boris is not by any objective assessment a racist, or a fascist dictator. Yet the left call him every name under the sun. And anyone who even thinks about voting for anyone other than the Left is treated likewise. Hint - if you abuse the voters they will not vote for you!

I can't see any way out of this - the Left have decided that politics is just another facet of morality, that anyone who disagrees with you politically is a bad person with evil intent, and they and they alone have the morally correct view about everything. Once you have that mindset you can no longer have shades of grey, you have stark black and white, everyone must either for for you or against you. And how can you appeal to the undecided voter with such rhetoric? By definition the undecided voter can see good in either camp, so if you say 'Hey, if you even think about voting for X you're a [insert any -ism you like]' then they will think 'Well I thought about voting for X, so you're calling me a [-ist]. F*** you.'

An outstanding post IMHO. The image of the Labour party today is one of exceptional "woke-isim" and political correctness and I don't think they even begin to realise how far that has driven them from the ordinary voter. Unless I live in a weird bubble removed from reality, when you set aside the real toffs like Rees-Mogg and the usual accusations of cronyism against Boris, the Conservatives are the party that are actually talking to the everyday voter.

 

[Exfarmer]

None of the parties are staying true to traditional ideologies. I think if I set up the flatscreen party offering free TVs to all I’d clean up in any election.

You are far too late, every one has them .

 

[le bon paysan]

This why brexit has caught them out , now needing to prove income status to reside in france , they can't qualify because their tax returns don't match , gotcha .

Conversely , there are plenty running businesses in france based in the UK with no intention of getting involved in french tax affairs

The gotcha spoilt your point which was correct.
The second point , in some cases with the UK as a third country, are illegal.

 

[wanton dwarf]

The gotcha spoilt your point which was correct.
The second point , in some cases with the UK as a third country, are illegal.

I bet a lot of these people were so against Brexit because they knew what was coming.

They've been playing both sides .. IMHO vindication of Brexit again.

 

[le bon paysan]

I bet a lot of these people were so against Brexit because they knew what was coming.

They've been playing both sides .. IMHO vindication of Brexit again.

Shockingly, these were most likely to have voted for Brexit as they are " entitled" and immigration laws would not apply to them!