There is no more money

[Hilly]

But many folk have good pensions - anyone who has worked in the public sector is doing OK. My neighbours are just into 60s both retired teachers with full pension having 30 years service. Local to me 55 year old Policeman - on a good crack pension and gone back part time to police service. I could go on. Are you taking the micky out of us pretending that all pensioners manage on the state pension - there are many but many more that get tops ups. Hey ho.

That wants stopped as well, public sector should have too work the same as private, copper retiring in 50`s is disgraceful.

 

[Hindsight]

That wants stopped as well, public sector should have too work the same as private, copper retiring in 50`s is disgraceful.

Private sector pensions very good to for those retiring now on defined benefits - it is the young folk who have been locked out of these schemes that will suffer.

 

[Fragonard]

Would you be so kind to point out which part of my post would indicate my bad attitude.

You'll survive somehow? What about people that are only scrapping by at the moment?
You want brexit at any cost, even as you say, it could be a stressful 10 years ahead of you?
Sounds a bit arrogant to me.
Sorry again.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

You'll survive somehow? What about people that are only scrapping by at the moment?
You want brexit at any cost, even as you say, it could be a stressful 10 years ahead of you?
Sounds a bit arrogant to me.
Sorry again.

Thanks for replying.
I had hoped not to come across as arrogant.
I have worked hard since the referendum to get my business to a place where I would hope I could cope with most eventualities. I hope I've wasted my time and all will prosper as we go forward.
I have never said I want brexit at any cost although I do think that this is a very overplayed card by those opposing brexit to frighten people into supporting their cause.
I was trying to make the point that the very worse thing would be 10 years of difficulty which would be the same as we've had now with the financial crisis 10 years ago.
There should be no stress at all if negotiations follow a logical path.
If you study all the reports and figures, I would seem that almost all of us livestock farmers having been just scrapping along for years. The system we work within is broken and with our hands tied by the EU I'm not sure it could be fixed.
Fields look a complete mess due to environmental schemes, grants and subsidies favour big landowners, local abattoirs have all been closed, the list goes on. Our industry needs a change. Pay me to be a park ranger, to feed the country or cut me free to trade in a free market but don't just continue to choke me to death.
If there was no brexit, there would be a huge change to farming just around the corner anyway. This is an opportunity for us to get ahead of the game.

 

[marcusthehat]

Re pension changes, as a recently retired (depot supervisor), local government employee, too many at senior levels were "gaming" the system, bugger is, those buggers statistically live much longer, therefore by any standard their pensions were/are unearned and unaffordable.
This combined with most people living longer made final salary schemes simply unviable.
Our/my scheme was already curtailed twice in the few years before I retired, one sensible change was to make it a career average scheme, not a final salary scheme, which left the scheme much fairer to all contributors.
mth

 

[Treg]

Mmmmm..... your accountants grasp of maths and the net effect of currency change, is somewhat suspect. Sounds more like the kinda accountant who holds court at the local ale house, pontificating wisely on matters economic! Best change your local!!!

Have you not seen the stock market since the Brexit vote!?

 

[Muck Spreader]

To many things being propped up with a sticking plaster mentality. Interest rates should have been upped at a quarter % at each of the last 3 bank of england meetings to frighten people into steadying up there spending . With all the new houses going up i think house prices are going to fall which will knacker a few with the negative equity problem. The country will go bang at some point because people do not learn the lessons of the past. The sooner farmers learn to survive without subs the better ,even if it means some going bust.

The UK is a service sector economy, therefor government can't afford the population to stop spending. It actually makes considerable efforts in making money more easily available though loans, mortgages etc to keep the economy turning over. They will keep pushing up house prices possibly with even longer term mortgages or things like mortgages that are passed on you children. Being in heavily in debt but not bankrupt is good for controlling and making the population compliant when a government has difficult policies to implement.

 

[Pond digger]

So the farmers that voted out, knew that they could lose money but still voted out for some other reasons.
Strange.
Any farmer I know has one primary objective, which is to make as much money as possible, which isn't a lot, but enough to keep the bills paid.
I don't know any farmer that would gamble or sacrifice his ability to pay the bills for some political or other reasons.

I'm not going to emigrate but I will know who to blame.

Blame the politicians that chose to ignore the electorates concerns about immigration and the insidious erosion of our national sovereignty.

You and Walt could always shack up together, somewhere in deepest EU heaven.

 

[Hilly]

The UK is a service sector economy, therefor government can't afford the population to stop spending. It actually makes considerable efforts in making money more easily available though loans, mortgages etc to keep the economy turning over. They will keep pushing up house prices possibly with even longer term mortgages or things like mortgages that are passed on you children. Being in heavily in debt but not bankrupt is good for controlling and making the population compliant when a government has difficult policies to implement.

Agreed , not good, it will all go pete tong in a big way one day.

 

[Hilly]

Blame the politicians that chose to ignore the electorates concerns about immigration and the insidious erosion of our national sovereignty.

You and Walt could always shack up together, somewhere in deepest EU heaven.

Aye, if Cameron had pulled the handbrake on immigration before the referendum we would be staying, folk have had enough, some tough times ahead regarding immigration id say, brexit was a warning shot to government to get it sorted and they have not taken the hint.

 

[Muck Spreader]

To go back to the op
"there is no more money"
So why are the Government bailing out our wildly inefficient, wasteful NHS
Instead of actually making it work, which will involve not-undeserved pain* for some employees, and at all levels.
"he who pays the Danegeld, will never be rid of the Dane"
We are simply being blackmailed by the NHS.
*like running expensive operating theaters, and highly paid Consultants, at least 7 days a week, if not 24/7, i,e. sweat those assets.
And attend to the inordinate number of lead-swinging "sick" staff.
mth

So what's you solution? The US pays twice what the UK does for it's healthcare and still a large proportion of the population fail to get all but the most basic assistance. You could follow France, but we still spend 25% more than the UK. I would agree that there are too many functionaries in the NHS. IMO if you don't have at lest some contact with patients you don't have a job.

 

[icanshootwell]

Thanks for replying.
I had hoped not to come across as arrogant.
I have worked hard since the referendum to get my business to a place where I would hope I could cope with most eventualities. I hope I've wasted my time and all will prosper as we go forward.
I have never said I want brexit at any cost although I do think that this is a very overplayed card by those opposing brexit to frighten people into supporting their cause.
I was trying to make the point that the very worse thing would be 10 years of difficulty which would be the same as we've had now with the financial crisis 10 years ago.
There should be no stress at all if negotiations follow a logical path.
If you study all the reports and figures, I would seem that almost all of us livestock farmers having been just scrapping along for years. The system we work within is broken and with our hands tied by the EU I'm not sure it could be fixed.
Fields look a complete mess due to environmental schemes, grants and subsidies favour big landowners, local abattoirs have all been closed, the list goes on. Our industry needs a change. Pay me to be a park ranger, to feed the country or cut me free to trade in a free market but don't just continue to choke me to death.
If there was no brexit, there would be a huge change to farming just around the corner anyway. This is an opportunity for us to get ahead of the game.

Thats the problem in this country, to many people scared of change, i agree, this country needs a bloody good shake up, change is good.

 

[Ashtree]

Imports will get too a value that making/producing things here will be attractive again, massive plus to be had out of that.

Restaurants, well too many anyway too many badly ran , retail ? rent rates internet.

Crikey, the naievity is beyond believable!!

Have you not seen the stock market since the Brexit vote!?

So the Brexit vote drove the stock markets up, it drove farmers income up, it drove small business profits up, all and sundry paid off bank loans ....... wow ...... does that ale house of yours do a lively trade in marijuana as well as real ale???

 

[Treg]

Crikey, the naievity is beyond believable!!


So the Brexit vote drove the stock markets up, it drove farmers income up, it drove small business profits up, all and sundry paid off bank loans ....... wow ...... does that ale house of yours do a lively trade in marijuana as well as real ale???

So the stock market is up because... oh yeah complete lack of confidence
What no one on here invests on the stock market & cashed it in? Your reading the wrong threads my friend.
And your the one calling people naive , although you couldn't spell it correctly!
I live near one of Cornwalls biggest independent employers (manufacturing farm machinery) they've had to start extra shifts & take on new staff to keep up with demand. Where are these new markets for British farm machinery? America (although trump may knock that one on the head ) & China.
Now go out & ask afew businesses how their doing before coming back with cheap remarks

 

[Tarw Coch]

Aye, if Cameron had pulled the handbrake on immigration before the referendum we would be staying, folk have had enough, some tough times ahead regarding immigration id say, brexit was a warning shot to government to get it sorted and they have not taken the hint.

I’m sure the role of immigration in the Brexit vote is being overstated, I think it was more about sovereignty and accountability, the people were fed up of being told things they didn’t like were the fault of Brussels when it was in fact the way we implemented/interpreted EU rules that was the problem.
Our politicians used Brussels as a scapegoat, and this was the people’s only way to make them listen.
If you want to blame anyone for Brexit blame several decades of politicians

 

[Hindsight]

The UK is a service sector economy, therefor government can't afford the population to stop spending. It actually makes considerable efforts in making money more easily available though loans, mortgages etc to keep the economy turning over. They will keep pushing up house prices possibly with even longer term mortgages or things like mortgages that are passed on you children. Being in heavily in debt but not bankrupt is good for controlling and making the population compliant when a government has difficult policies to implement.

And why Thatcher sold the Council House stock -- to encourage the working class to have capital - yes, but equally important to ensure as they owned capital (their house) they then had an asset to loan against. And it has worked well??!

 

[Hindsight]

I’m sure the role of immigration in the Brexit vote is being overstated, I think it was more about sovereignty and accountability, the people were fed up of being told things they didn’t like were the fault of Brussels when it was in fact the way we implemented/interpreted EU rules that was the problem.
Our politicians used Brussels as a scapegoat, and this was the people’s only way to make them listen.
If you want to blame anyone for Brexit blame several decades of politicians

Not sure I agree with that - think you are preferring it to not be immigration. I was genuinely surprised by the referendum result and on the morning of June 24 2016 was taken aback at the strength of the leave vote in my area (South Lincs). Subsequently I have not spoken much to anyone about the referendum but have listened when folk have proffered a view or their explanation and in general immigration figured quite highly. Hey ho.

 

[Pond digger]

I’m sure the role of immigration in the Brexit vote is being overstated, I think it was more about sovereignty and accountability, the people were fed up of being told things they didn’t like were the fault of Brussels when it was in fact the way we implemented/interpreted EU rules that was the problem.
Our politicians used Brussels as a scapegoat, and this was the people’s only way to make them listen.
If you want to blame anyone for Brexit blame several decades of politicians

I think that for the majority of the general public, the main issue was/is undoubtedly, immigration: probably not such an issue for the farming vote.

 

[marcusthehat]

Seeing as how when I visited the APF Show held just south of Birmingham,
I was shocked to see zero non white faces,
as opposed to the rather cosmopolitan diversity observed when I stopped in random nearby towns/villages on route.
And obviously in swathes of Birmingham, a different story entirely.
So we generally form our bias based on our immediate surroundings.
What I am saying is that perhaps the average farmer is not so exposed to inner city "multiculturalism", as per pond digger above.
which is to say, that for a high %age of BREXIT voters, immigration was probably a central defining issue.
but again I was genuinely shocked at how white the forestry industry is.
cheers
mth

 

[Muck Spreader]

Not sure I agree with that - think you are preferring it to not be immigration. I was genuinely surprised by the referendum result and on the morning of June 24 2016 was taken aback at the strength of the leave vote in my area (South Lincs). Subsequently I have not spoken much to anyone about the referendum but have listened when folk have proffered a view or their explanation and in general immigration figured quite highly. Hey ho.

I think the referendum was a way the public could voice it's anger at many things, even some that had nothing to do with the EU. But I would agree that immigration was the strongest single factor that people came up with, certainly amongst folk I know anyway.