That was my point.
To properly rewild, land would have to be completely abandoned. But that could take decades. Who pays?
Otherwise, it's another form of "farming" with limited benefits. Certainly doesn't fill stomachs
There is no such thing as the wild in the UK?
- Thread starter Chris F
- Start date
That was my point.
To properly rewild, land would have to be completely abandoned. But that could take decades. Who pays?
Otherwise, it's another form of "farming" with limited benefits. Certainly doesn't fill stomachs
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
A theme park more like.
serf
Member
- Location
- warwickshire
Can just imagine it now , article in the guardian dated 2030,
Ramblers association disgusted at farmers leaving land to go to wilderness prohibing access for our members to OUR countryside
Ramblers association disgusted at farmers leaving land to go to wilderness prohibing access for our members to OUR countryside
- Location
- North Wales
Farmers got the blame for ripping out hedges and destroying the habitat even though it was really a government idea and so this will be the same, farmers will be blamed for rewilding when it's government behind it.Can just imagine it now , article in the guardian dated 2030,
Ramblers association disgusted at farmers leaving land to go to wilderness prohibing access for our members to OUR countryside
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
The general public do not realise that it was the War Ag who changed the agenda, with the ability to throw farmers off their farms if they were not intensive enough. Then ADAS gave advice on how to become more efficient (when ADAS were part of the government) and there were Farm and Horticultural Development Grants (was it 80% funding for drainage schemes, buildings and lime in the severely disadvantaged areas?)
Goggles
Member
- Location
- Hertfordshire
Our neighbouring estate, who we have done all the arable work for the last 20 years, have just rewilded 500 acres.
They are ring fencing blocks of land with deer fencing. Smallish blocks of approximately 100 acres because of infrastructure etc.
We have drilled 50 metre strips of grass around any perimeter bordering with a neighbour to act as a “ragwort and thistle buffer strip” circa 150 acres.
I believe some of the area will be grazed lightly.
My personal opinion.. is this rewi? No.
Will it be a mess for 20 years? Yes
Will it benefit wildlife significantly? No
Will it move larger mammals onto neighbouring property by cutting off ancient animal highways? Yes
Will it push larger mammals onto roads? Yes
Am I upset my boss has lost 500 acres of income, therefore affecting my income? Yes
I genuinely hope that some of my answers are wrong. There’s no going back on the scheme now.
They are ring fencing blocks of land with deer fencing. Smallish blocks of approximately 100 acres because of infrastructure etc.
We have drilled 50 metre strips of grass around any perimeter bordering with a neighbour to act as a “ragwort and thistle buffer strip” circa 150 acres.
I believe some of the area will be grazed lightly.
My personal opinion.. is this rewi? No.
Will it be a mess for 20 years? Yes
Will it benefit wildlife significantly? No
Will it move larger mammals onto neighbouring property by cutting off ancient animal highways? Yes
Will it push larger mammals onto roads? Yes
Am I upset my boss has lost 500 acres of income, therefore affecting my income? Yes
I genuinely hope that some of my answers are wrong. There’s no going back on the scheme now.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
My gripe with rewilding is that it is a one sided argument. People who live in centrally heated houses with cars, roads, power stations, hospitals and every uncountable amenity of the 20/21st century want the workplace of others returned to dark ages use.
In the 200 years since Britain was somewhat green and verdant outside of the fledgling cities the population has expanded by 46 million, the world population has expanded by 5 billion. There simply is not the scope for a few thousand knowledgeable folk and half a million rewilding disciples to tell us to revert vast swathes of land that currently produce our daily bread, our extensively reared sheep or cattle to Dark Ages systems.
Forgetting the meat eating argument and assuming rewilding doesn't just mean in the UK if we take land out out of production we must utilise the remaining land more intensely. How do we do this without poisoning what remains with fungicides, herbicides and pesticides and travelling man made fert's around the world at exorbitant cost to the purse and the environment?
Demanding part of the developed world be returned to the Dark Ages at no cost to the 21st century lifestyle of others is deplorable. How about everyone demanding it surrenders something in return like mechanised transport, the internet or their house in sympathy with the 'nature' they demand others save at no cost to themselves.
In the 200 years since Britain was somewhat green and verdant outside of the fledgling cities the population has expanded by 46 million, the world population has expanded by 5 billion. There simply is not the scope for a few thousand knowledgeable folk and half a million rewilding disciples to tell us to revert vast swathes of land that currently produce our daily bread, our extensively reared sheep or cattle to Dark Ages systems.
Forgetting the meat eating argument and assuming rewilding doesn't just mean in the UK if we take land out out of production we must utilise the remaining land more intensely. How do we do this without poisoning what remains with fungicides, herbicides and pesticides and travelling man made fert's around the world at exorbitant cost to the purse and the environment?
Demanding part of the developed world be returned to the Dark Ages at no cost to the 21st century lifestyle of others is deplorable. How about everyone demanding it surrenders something in return like mechanised transport, the internet or their house in sympathy with the 'nature' they demand others save at no cost to themselves.
Wild land needs to be managed, or it ceases to have the necessary diversity. If it is not grazed at the right time, the grass takes over. These phoyos were all taken in two 'wild' fields totalling about 10 acres. One field could, with drainage, be ploughed and reseeded, but what's the point. I would rather see this than have a couple of extra cows about the place.
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
there seems to be an implicit assumption too, in this rewilding idea, that we can farm the remaining land more intensively and produce more. Do they honestly think that farmers are not trying to grow as much as they can on their arable acres? Or am I missing something here?
My view, Knebb great as an example of how our landscape was in the past, blueprint for future farming? No way. We need to possibly tweak how we farm now (mind you having been to Groundswell I would say that!) and take on board regenerative principles. Maybe plant and manage a few more hedges etc. Stop destroying our countryside for housing and try to link habitats more. Definitely kick most of the environmentalists into touch as a minimum and kicking into touch is the most polite thing I could think of doing to all these rewilders who want to introduce alien species here (wolf, lynx, beaver, eagle etc) and we need to eat more meat and ditch all this processed rubbish.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
The previous folk who owned our place were an etymologist and a biologist, they surveyed it and logged thousands of varieties of insects and literally hundreds of plant species in the fields, pond, hedgerows, woodlands and untouched fenced and ignored areas. I could take the grants and cover the remaining remaining 1/3 of our place with blanket trees. If I did, even planting deciduous trees I would decimate the variety of flora and fauna. One might argue that the woodlands would be a habitat for all the above but I can demonstrate that trees planted in rows are not woodland regardless of species. Not for many decades. They are just a crop of trees. They have a minimal amount of wildlife but nothing like a natural woodland that has evolved over a thousand years.
The way to make a place jumping with wildlife is copses, hedgerows, ponds, uncultivated areas that are managed, trees felled, rides kept open for edge habitat, ponds that are dredged occasionally to keep them viable, hedges trimmed in a rotation, mammals culled to allow generation and regeneration, etc, etc. Fencing and forgetting is untenable as demonstrated by the Oostvaardersplassen experiment. Link below.
Landowners taking their legally owned assets out of personal possession for the good of all at the demand of a minority deserve recompense by all those benefiting from the surrender of their assets. Claiming landowners should pay because they own X amount of acres or are wealthy is politics of envy not environmentalism. I'm sure farms and uni' graduates would love to find public funds available to beautify their property and provide employment for the new eco-land managers if it matched or surpassed the value already inherent to the owners.
Below shows how much management rewilded land really needs and the consequences of shut it up and walk away type plans. Someone has to pay for this and it should not be incumbent upon a landowner to do so at the behest of others with no vested interest in the land for no reward whilst others continue their 21st century life that is destroying the environment and stealing thousands of green acres every day.
rewilding.org
The way to make a place jumping with wildlife is copses, hedgerows, ponds, uncultivated areas that are managed, trees felled, rides kept open for edge habitat, ponds that are dredged occasionally to keep them viable, hedges trimmed in a rotation, mammals culled to allow generation and regeneration, etc, etc. Fencing and forgetting is untenable as demonstrated by the Oostvaardersplassen experiment. Link below.
Landowners taking their legally owned assets out of personal possession for the good of all at the demand of a minority deserve recompense by all those benefiting from the surrender of their assets. Claiming landowners should pay because they own X amount of acres or are wealthy is politics of envy not environmentalism. I'm sure farms and uni' graduates would love to find public funds available to beautify their property and provide employment for the new eco-land managers if it matched or surpassed the value already inherent to the owners.
Below shows how much management rewilded land really needs and the consequences of shut it up and walk away type plans. Someone has to pay for this and it should not be incumbent upon a landowner to do so at the behest of others with no vested interest in the land for no reward whilst others continue their 21st century life that is destroying the environment and stealing thousands of green acres every day.
European Experiments in Rewilding: Oostvaardersplassen
By David T. Schwartz Credit for all images in this article © David Schwartz One of the most intriguing yet controversial restoration projects in the worl
rewilding.org
- Location
- Hammerwich
I have seen them all to be fair. I am all for wildlife areas, corridors, habitats as part of farming. I am not trying to say that the concept to make the UK better is not a good thing, but rather the concept of the wild has been lost.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Wild is lost because men, farming, aspirations, society has evolved. It is dreams of La-la land to think we can have untouched forests such as Neanderthal man roamed on the outskirts of towns and cities. Folk would want to drive into them to walk and set up camps to view them for a start and that would require roads and rangers and tourist souvenier shops and a cafe and a loo and a..., and a... , and the list goes on to keep the 21st people happy with their investment in the dark ages. It would be a zoo not a habitat. If you tell folk their tax pounds are going into something they are banned from it would gather the same response as suggesting a new power station or new generation of nukes. If there is no tangible benefit the man on the street has no interest. The only folk to benefit would be the folk who insist that they are essential to the project, demand access and a wee badge and a car pass to tell everyone how great it is and what a wonderful utopia they have created for your benefit but that you cannot see.
Tell folk you are going to allow the deer to explode without culling and let them starve when they reach critical mass and there would be uproar.
Tell the folk that you are culling deer on their nature reserve and there would be uproar.
Tell folk their right to roam has been revoked and there would be uproar.
Wilding land by encouraging the diversification of existing practises is much more desirable and attainable than RE-wilding someone else's property and removing the amenity of their property be that by taxing/regulating them out of viability in a fit of socialist/eco-mental spite or by introducing animals, pests, predators that pervade nearby land and which benefit from blanket protection.
Tell folk you are going to allow the deer to explode without culling and let them starve when they reach critical mass and there would be uproar.
Tell the folk that you are culling deer on their nature reserve and there would be uproar.
Tell folk their right to roam has been revoked and there would be uproar.
Wilding land by encouraging the diversification of existing practises is much more desirable and attainable than RE-wilding someone else's property and removing the amenity of their property be that by taxing/regulating them out of viability in a fit of socialist/eco-mental spite or by introducing animals, pests, predators that pervade nearby land and which benefit from blanket protection.