Thinking of changing to shedding sheep. Change my mind.

[Aspiring Peasants]

Is that an increase in those types, or easing back of ‘normal’ lambs not affecting them so much?
That’s certainly a healthy premium and makes it worth some extra effort. It’s not something we ever see in marts further South though, or certainly not to that degree.

Out of interest, what proportion of lambs actually attain those premiums? I’m guessing your average lamb price isn’t £30 above the mean?

It's always going to be a bit subjective but on Tuesday at Kirkby where we sell, 941 Beltex cross hoggs averaged £152. The overall average for 3674 was £121 but this obviously includes the Beltexes so the average price for "normal" lambs was less. I would say while ordinary lambs have eased back, Beltex type lambs have got dearer. I'm selling the final clear out now and my "normal" lambs averaged £117 at 47kgs and some Beltexes which were nothing special £152 at 41Kgs. These lambs had all run together and would have the same costs against them feed wise etc. Yes, there's a bit more attention at lambing but to me it's a no brainer as to which has paid better

 

[Kingcustard]

It's always going to be a bit subjective but on Tuesday at Kirkby where we sell, 941 Beltex cross hoggs averaged £152. The overall average for 3674 was £121 but this obviously includes the Beltexes so the average price for "normal" lambs was less. I would say while ordinary lambs have eased back, Beltex type lambs have got dearer. I'm selling the final clear out now and my "normal" lambs averaged £117 at 47kgs and some Beltexes which were nothing special £152 at 41Kgs. These lambs had all run together and would have the same costs against them feed wise etc. Yes, there's a bit more attention at lambing but to me it's a no brainer as to which has paid better

That's great to hear and shows how good Beltexs can be. I find they lamb to a lower percentage and the death rate is higher and I am left with a lot of 35kg runts from them at the end. That's just my experience though and so I won't have another Beltex on the place.

Every farm is different, I am happy to be laughed at and ridiculed for my choice of sheep but at 1000 feet in a snow storm I want something that lambs and lives.

As I get older i need a system I can manage myself and continue to make money of the land we have.

The problem up in Scotland is there might only be orders for 30 butchers lambs at the mart so if you aren't in that bracket then they are the same price as the rest. And at the abattoir the difference is 16p a kilo for an E so not worth my bother.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

That's great to hear and shows how good Beltexs can be. I find they lamb to a lower percentage and the death rate is higher and I am left with a lot of 35kg runts from them at the end. That's just my experience though and so I won't have another Beltex on the place.

Every farm is different, I am happy to be laughed at and ridiculed for my choice of sheep but at 1000 feet in a snow storm I want something that lambs and lives.

As I get older i need a system I can manage myself and cantinue to make money of the land we have.

Everybody's situation is different and I admire anybody who's making a go of it. My thinking behind our system was that at 900ft in the Pennines with a high proportion of wet land, ewes need to be housed for the winter to give grass a rest and have a reasonable stocking rate. Because it's all PP the proportion sold off grass will be less than kinder areas so our cost base will always be higher.

Therefore with a higher cost base it makes sense to go for higher output

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

The problem up in Scotland is there might only be orders for 30 butchers lambs at the mart so if you aren't in that bracket then they are the same price as the rest. And at the abattoir the difference is 16p a kilo for an E so not worth my bother.

I believe a large number of these lambs sold here go for export

 

[Estate fencing.]

That's interesting, my neighbour who lambs 1000 mules, half to NZ Suff and the other half to my tups, consistently sells more Tex lambs first at better grades than the Suffs, which take more finishing, they have a good trade in Suffolk x ewe lambs, and before anyone jumps in, they are NZ suffolks and its a top flight operation on PP.

Who’s that then?

 

[Kingcustard]

Everybody's situation is different and I admire anybody who's making a go of it. My thinking behind our system was that at 900ft in the Pennines with a high proportion of wet land, ewes need to be housed for the winter to give grass a rest and have a reasonable stocking rate. Because it's all PP the proportion sold off grass will be less than kinder areas so our cost base will always be higher.

Therefore with a higher cost base it makes sense to go for higher output

You are spot on.

I have to feed ewes for 6 weeks before lambing and 6 weeks after in a good year, and they get fodder beet thrown at them big style.

I just find I am getting too many problems with the mules and my days of lambing 600 indoors in a oner are gone.

So the easycares go to the worst fields and are making a good go of them. Have a farm 17 miles away and they get ferried along their after lambing and get on with it, no backed ewes to worry about and they do well of the rushes and oermenant pasture.

The mules are away this year and maybe try a composite for lambing 200 early and they go to the better fields and creep the lambs to start selling in May and get the profit out of them that way.

Whatever I do is a disaster though, and so I am fully expecting the easycares will bite me in the ass big time this year too.

 

[Kingcustard]

I believe a large number of these lambs sold here go for export

Mine are all in with the supermarket contracts like M and S I believe. Wherever they go is immaterial though, all I care about is getting the biggest bottom line with the least amount of costs to be deducted from it.

Tried the Beltex and topped the market with ease out of big mule ewes but when you look at the whole crop of lambs they don't do it for me. Texels are better, but they don't fatten as quick as NZ Suffolks, but they have been big this year. Didn't raddle the tups so I have had a lot of ewes feed 3 weeks more than they should have been pre lambing.

 

[Kingcustard]

You are spot on.

I have to feed ewes for 6 weeks before lambing and 6 weeks after in a good year, and they get fodder beet thrown at them big style.

I just find I am getting too many problems with the mules and my days of lambing 600 indoors in a oner are gone.

So the easycares go to the worst fields and are making a good go of them. Have a farm 17 miles away and they get ferried along their after lambing and get on with it, no backed ewes to worry about and they do well of the rushes and oermenant pasture.

The mules are away this year and maybe try a composite for lambing 200 early and they go to the better fields and creep the lambs to start selling in May and get the profit out of them that way.

Whatever I do is a disaster though, and so I am fully expecting the easycares will bite me in the ass big time this year too.

I would love to have a big shed and run the ewes in at Christmas and let the grass rest. Have 2 fields of about 15 acres that were free from sheep from December and the grass is there, maybe not a great quality but the ewes are miking and the lambs are happy.

The rest are on bare earth and it's depressing going out to feed them in the mud. We are hill though so a few dry days and all will be well in the land of sheep.

 

[Tim W]

@Woolless has texel influenced shedders which could be used as a terminal sire.

Or there are people breeding clean shedding dorpers with good feet. Alternatively, breed your own shedding terminal.

@Tim W has posted photos of shedders based on Suffolk crosses before.

I have some shedding sheep in the top 25% of the national terminal sire evaluations

 

[CopperBeech]

 

[CopperBeech]

Those are some pure Welsh hill lambs, tup lambs also. And they are mostly grading Rs. So some folk must have real poor shedders to be grading worse than that.

 

[Kingcustard]

That's interesting, my neighbour who lambs 1000 mules, half to NZ Suff and the other half to my tups, consistently sells more Tex lambs first at better grades than the Suffs, which take more finishing, they have a good trade in Suffolk x ewe lambs, and before anyone jumps in, they are NZ suffolks and its a top flight operation on PP.

That would not be the norm, not up in these parts anyway. If you go to the market the early lambs are all black heads and the texels are weeks behind. The issue with any Suffolk is chance of big lambs that need pulled and slower lambs that need sooked. The texels lamb themselves and get up and sook themselves, and in my book that's worth the extra while they take to finish.

I have decided there are no easy sheep to keep, it's just which ones cost you less problems.

 

[gatepost]

That would not be the norm, not up in these parts anyway. If you go to the market the early lambs are all black heads and the texels are weeks behind. The issue with any Suffolk is chance of big lambs that need pulled and slower lambs that need sooked. The texels lamb themselves and get up and sook themselves, and in my book that's worth the extra while they take to finish.

I have decided there are no easy sheep to keep, it's just which ones cost you less problems.

That has been the consensus for years, signet ram compare results are worth having a look at, lots of difference in killing out % but it would be true that a lot of emphasis in certain breeds isn't helping, with commercial attributes virtually scorned.

 

[Kingcustard]

That has been the consensus for years, signet ram compare results are worth having a look at, lots of difference in killing out % but it would be true that a lot of emphasis in certain breeds isn't helping, with commercial attributes virtually scorned.

I run half texels and half NZ Suffolks and my experience is that the Texels are slower, still have some to sell while the Suffolks have all been away well before Christmas, not knocking the breed, just an observation. And the early markets are always Suffolks out of something up here. I am sure there will be plenty that argue but if I want early lambs away quickly a texel would not be my tup of choice. If I want an easier lambing and to not pull my hair out a texel would be my tup of choice, can't have it all ways I suppose

 

[Johngee]

The mules are away this year and maybe try a composite for lambing 200 early and they go to the better fields and creep the lambs to start selling in May and get the profit out of them that way.

Whatever I do is a disaster though, and so I am fully expecting the easycares will bite me in the ass big time this year too.

Will you just buy in ewes for this composite flock or will you breed them out of your mules or shedders?

 

[Kingcustard]

Will you just buy in ewes for this composite flock or will you breed them out of your mules or shedders?

Just buy in, I don't have the time or space to be breeding up and selecting traits and all that. I would never knock the people who do as they are the innovators that keep the industry moving forward, but they need to realise that not everyone can do it.

I am happy to buy in the results of someone else hard work and see how it goes for me.

Just put 9 sets of triplets out with no milk on to teh young grass that the cattle get and will pick up hungry lambs as I see them. My days of boasting of 200 percent lambing are behind me. Happily scan at 180 to 190 percent and have an easier time of it with less triplets.

Just need to find the breed that will give me that and be easy lambing and cut down on prolapses and bad udders and getting thin at lambing time, but can lamb indoors to give the grass a rest.

Any suggestions

 

[Estate fencing.]

Just buy in, I don't have the time or space to be breeding up and selecting traits and all that. I would never knock the people who do as they are the innovators that keep the industry moving forward, but they need to realise that not everyone can do it.

I am happy to buy in the results of someone else hard work and see how it goes for me.

Just put 9 sets of triplets out with no milk on to teh young grass that the cattle get and will pick up hungry lambs as I see them. My days of boasting of 200 percent lambing are behind me. Happily scan at 180 to 190 percent and have an easier time of it with less triplets.

Just need to find the breed that will give me that and be easy lambing and cut down on prolapses and bad udders and getting thin at lambing time, but can lamb indoors to give the grass a rest.

Any suggestions

Are you getting bad udders as they lamb?

 

[Kingcustard]

Before they lamb this year and I check them religiously. Some just not milking but nothing seems wrong, no lumps or heat, others getting bad udders that I notice when they lamb. Dad always reckoned just get them onto the grass and see what happens.

Weather is awful too so my 3 years of early lambing is over, second week of March from now on so they can get out of the shed as soon as they lamb.

But whatever I do always seems to be the wrong thing.

Don't want to be lambing easycares and crosses at same time as its too much running about.

 

[Estate fencing.]

Before they lamb this year and I check them religiously. Some just not milking but nothing seems wrong, no lumps or heat, others getting bad udders that I notice when they lamb. Dad always reckoned just get them onto the grass and see what happens.

Weather is awful too so my 3 years of early lambing is over, second week of March from now on so they can get out of the shed as soon as they lamb.

But whatever I do always seems to be the wrong thing.

Don't want to be lambing easycares and crosses at same time as its too much running about.

I had that last year in mules. They had hard udders, some of them only only one side so singled them and I’m pretty sure that they came into full milk but did cull them all. Some had no milk so they went cull straight away.

 

[Kingcustard]

It's soul destroying, I spend my life trying to get better at it and every year there is something.

By May I will have forgotten about it all and think everything is rosy but decision made. Mules away and start again.

If that doesn't work just go all easycare depending on how they do this year and turn the lambing shed into something else.