Thinking of changing to shedding sheep. Change my mind.

[Green farmer]

What would you rather shear -

a sheep with a decent fleece that can be rolled, or

a sheep that has cast about half its fleece, but that has to be sheared to make it look respectable, and which leaves remnants that can't be rolled.

neither, because both involve working for no pay and cost me money through flystrike etc.

 

[SteveHants]

I could try some and see how they go. I'd probably still use wooly terminal sires on the poorer half anyway.
There's a dead weight collection centre not far away anyway if they won't like them in market.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record - I'd your top 20% ewes to an Exlana ram to breed replacements (and give you plenty to choose from) and stick the rest to a terminal sire.
All my first timers went to a Char - if they passed that test, then the better of them went to the nucleus flock for replacements, the acceptable ones went to the commercial flock and were put to a SufTex (to maximise hybrid vigour) and any lambing problems/bad rearers/ did anything else I didn't like etc went down the road.

 

[neilo]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record - I'd your top 20% ewes to an Exlana ram to breed replacements (and give you plenty to choose from) and stick the rest to a terminal sire.
All my first timers went to a Char - if they passed that test, then the better of them went to the nucleus flock for replacements, the acceptable ones went to the commercial flock and were put to a SufTex (to maximise hybrid vigour) and any lambing problems/bad rearers/ did anything else I didn't like etc went down the road.

If a flock has a 20% replacement rate and rearing 150%, you need to put more than 20% to maternal rams to breed enough replacements, without having any spares to allow you to be more picky. Replacement rate could be over 20% of course, if you are culling for anything and everything, or trying to move over to shedders more quickly.

 

[sheepwise]

With the apparent swing toward goaty sheep on here, will wool become short and the price skyrocket? Will we then see lots of threads asking what’s the best way to breed wool back onto my hair sheep?

@yellowbelly may be ahead of the curve.

I know and it's just another kick in the teeth for young guys trying to get a start in the farming job. Know several who started off shearing that are now running substantial flocks and farm businesses of their own. Not only because of the good money that can be earned by a good shearer but also because of the knowledge gleaned by travelling round the country observing how different flocks and systems operate.

 

[SteveHants]

If a flock has a 20% replacement rate and rearing 150%, you need to put more than 20% to maternal rams to breed enough replacements, without having any spares to allow you to be more picky. Replacement rate could be over 20% of course, if you are culling for anything and everything, or trying to move over to shedders more quickly.

Worked for me - total flock size 500, nucleus 100 - lamb @ 180%, rear 160 + leaving approx. 80 ewe lambs to choose from (assume the 150% in your post to be on the safe side, that still leaves 75).

That gave me sufficient replacements to be pretty ruthless with both the flocks (although on the other hand, I wouldn't cull anything that hadn't offended me, so I did have some very old ewes, but I felt longevity was worth breeding for).

 

[Woolless]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record - I'd your top 20% ewes to an Exlana ram to breed replacements (and give you plenty to choose from) and stick the rest to a terminal sire.
All my first timers went to a Char - if they passed that test, then the better of them went to the nucleus flock for replacements, the acceptable ones went to the commercial flock and were put to a SufTex (to maximise hybrid vigour) and any lambing problems/bad rearers/ did anything else I didn't like etc went down the road.

It's certainly a good idea to have an 'A' and 'B' flock. Best time to start on a project like this is a year before, ear-notching everything that disappoints so that there is a sound base to start the shedding flock from.

 

[unlacedgecko]

If it were me, everything would go to a shedder from year 1.

Focus on getting rid of wool first then move onto the next thing. I'd still be culling as I went.

 

[hendrebc]

If a flock has a 20% replacement rate and rearing 150%, you need to put more than 20% to maternal rams to breed enough replacements, without having any spares to allow you to be more picky. Replacement rate could be over 20% of course, if you are culling for anything and everything, or trying to move over to shedders more quickly.

That's been my problem. Culling too hard on things and putting more and more ewes into a b flock to have a terminal sire then I can't breed replacement ewe lambs fast enough.
With better grazing management now and measuring growth and things I have some numbers to back up my decision I know I can run double the ewe numbers to what I have now (it's all on my thread what's your AFC). Not just guess at what I can keep. So I want to breed those ewes as fast as I can which is why I want to put the better half to the shedders. There will probably be more than 50% end up with them by the time I've gone through them. There are some older NZ texel cross ewes that have never put a foot wrong (or they wouldn't still be here) that can go to breed replacements now I'm not fussing with pure lleyns.

It's certainly a good idea to have an 'A' and 'B' flock. Best time to start on a project like this is a year before, ear-notching everything that disappoints so that there is a sound base to start the shedding flock from.

Been earnotching for about 12 years now. Made a really big difference.

 

[MDL POWERUP]

Like the idea of wool shedding sheep, don't like the shape of them and you still have to look at them every day. I'd also like to see some profit analysis of auction sold shedders vs wool sheep on a low input system if there is one?

 

[hendrebc]

Like the idea of wool shedding sheep, don't like the shape of them and you still have to look at them every day. I'd also like to see some profit analysis of auction sold shedders vs wool sheep on a low input system if there is one?

That's exactly where I'm coming from. That's why I want to try the peeler texel cross exlana see if they keep some of the shape. I've been told not to try well them live and send deadweight or they will be £10 a head less but that would be pure maternal shedders not texel crosses. One person told me once you get a bit of a following at a market for them the buyers will just buy them for what they are and bid at them like normal lambs. Bit you'd ha e to take the hit for a few years first. I'll see how it goes £10 a lamb is a lot...

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Worked for me - total flock size 500, nucleus 100 - lamb @ 180%, rear 160 + leaving approx. 80 ewe lambs to choose from (assume the 150% in your post to be on the safe side, that still leaves 75).

That gave me sufficient replacements to be pretty ruthless with both the flocks (although on the other hand, I wouldn't cull anything that hadn't offended me, so I did have some very old ewes, but I felt longevity was worth breeding for).

Good on you if you managed to maintain flock size with 15% replacement rate, keeping every maternal bred ewe lamb. Can I ask how long you ran that system?

 

[MDL POWERUP]

That's exactly where I'm coming from. That's why I want to try the peeler texel cross exlana see if they keep some of the shape. I've been told not to try well them live and send deadweight or they will be £10 a head less but that would be pure maternal shedders not texel crosses. One person told me once you get a bit of a following at a market for them the buyers will just buy them for what they are and bid at them like normal lambs. Bit you'd ha e to take the hit for a few years first. I'll see how it goes £10 a lamb is a lot...

I can't see it being much of a problem when prices are high for springers or hoggs later on, but when prices are on the decline and they start to get picky that's when I think they'll struggle. Maybe best to ring tails and balls and sell as hoggs?

 

[Bones]

That's exactly where I'm coming from. That's why I want to try the peeler texel cross exlana see if they keep some of the shape. I've been told not to try well them live and send deadweight or they will be £10 a head less but that would be pure maternal shedders not texel crosses. One person told me once you get a bit of a following at a market for them the buyers will just buy them for what they are and bid at them like normal lambs. Bit you'd ha e to take the hit for a few years first. I'll see how it goes £10 a lamb is a lot...

Surely if you could sell the pure easycares a few kgs heavier say 23kg at the market , bound to help with the prices,

 

[Green farmer]

Like the idea of wool shedding sheep, don't like the shape of them and you still have to look at them every day.

Are they a worse shape ? Or are they the same shape as other sheep but dont have the wool to cover up all the flaws ? What do they k.o like ? My lleyns k.i at 17-20kg this year with an awful lot getting to u grade, but factory doesnt rewards me any extra for U grade, so as long as they can be R or anything better, I'll be happy

 

[Woolless]

Like the idea of wool shedding sheep, don't like the shape of them and you still have to look at them every day. I'd also like to see some profit analysis of auction sold shedders vs wool sheep on a low input system if there is one?

Some of them are plain sheep but I think folk don't tend to allow enough for the lack of wool. A lot of woolly sheep look pretty plain with the coat off. Same way that the knockers seem to judge them against a mule for maternal traits and a Texel for terminal traits, not taking into account that they'll be cheaper and easier to keep than either.

 

[ISCO]

Couple of our 19 easycare hoggs nicely shedding.(We bought 20 but scanner man informed us one had balls as well so sold it).
I can't tell you which.lambs are theirs as number disappeared with wool! That's one fault!
Son likes them as he thinks they are easier to see what condition they are in as they seem to partially shed all year round then shed all now.
We have no.pure bred to see what males are like but they can't be any worse than mule. We sell deadweight so it should not be a problem for us.

 

[Bill dog]

@hendrebc , don’t take the live ring hit when selling your shedding wedder lambs, just get them gone deadweight on the truck . I’m guessing there is a lamb group in your area , and sell your terminals however you like !

 

[Woolless]

@hendrebc , don’t take the live ring hit when selling your shedding wedder lambs, just get them gone deadweight on the truck . I’m guessing there is a lamb group in your area , and sell your terminals however you like !

As others have said previously, I've found that they sell well enough through the live ring outwith peak season but at times of peak numbers, I'd definitely want to sell them on the hook.

 

[hendrebc]

I can't see it being much of a problem when prices are high for springers or hoggs later on, but when prices are on the decline and they start to get picky that's when I think they'll struggle. Maybe best to ring tails and balls and sell as hoggs?

Maybe. I do sell some as hoggs anyway I'll just see how it goes.

Are they a worse shape ? Or are they the same shape as other sheep but dont have the wool to cover up all the flaws ? What do they k.o like ? My lleyns k.i at 17-20kg this year with an awful lot getting to u grade, but factory doesnt rewards me any extra for U grade, so as long as they can be R or anything better, I'll be happy

No they are the same shape just without the wool. It's just that the wool hides a lot of faults and makes them look bigger or have more shape on them. When buyers get used to them it shouldn't matter or so I'm told.

Surely if you could sell the pure easycares a few kgs heavier say 23kg at the market , bound to help with the prices,

Could do that. But I'm keen to get lambs gone when they are ready as they don't do anything but eat grass I can use for something else after that. I'll sell deadweight if there is a big price difference.

@hendrebc , don’t take the live ring hit when selling your shedding wedder lambs, just get them gone deadweight on the truck . I’m guessing there is a lamb group in your area , and sell your terminals however you like !

I'm taking steer to a deadweight collection centre this afternoon they take lambs there. Never sent lambs before but I'll ask when I'm there.

 

[SteveHants]

Good on you if you managed to maintain flock size with 15% replacement rate, keeping every maternal bred ewe lamb. Can I ask how long you ran that system?

I didn't keep them all, I had some to sell in some years. I did that for 7 years. This may be because I started with decent animals to begin with (you'll have to ask about TimW and others about that.... ). The commercial flock had 400 ewes, I wouldn't have expected to cull more than 50 in any given year, which left me with the best to retain in the nucleus flock (although older animals were often demoted to the commercial flock to give me the newest genetics in the commercial flock).
To add: Not many of my home bred replacement lambs didn't make the commercial flock for lambing offences etc, but maybe if I was breeding up from something else or trying to correct a badly performing flock then maybe it would have been different. I did always try to buy sheep from poorer ground than I had, which admittedly wasn't hard in Hampshire...