This forum Brexit

[Danllan]

That is a rather offensive and childish post. The poster has merely given his observations on 40+ years in the industry. If you wish to disagree, feel free, but please do it in a grown up manner.

Do you aspire to continually reach the standard you request?

 

[caveman]

That is a rather offensive and childish post. The poster has merely given his observations on 40+ years in the industry. If you wish to disagree, feel free, but please do it in a grown up manner.

Refer back to my stock default answer.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Refer back to my stock default answer.

I am only saying it because it's slightly unfair on forum members who venture down here to immediately be slagged off. Do you want this area to be solely occupied by the dozen or so of us who all know each others opinions ad nauseam and a debate that mostly goes round in circles. Because, I wish more members would participate to keep interesting debate going. Heaven knows there is no shortage of areas that could be discussed.

 

[Austin7]

That is a very long way of telling us that you liked the gravy train and care more about your own interest than the national one - whereas, many of us care more for the country and its long-term well being than you and voted upon that basis.

I'll be happy to bet that your 'predictions' are rubbish, and feel particularly confident in my assessment of your judgement after reading of your love for EC Directives etc.; anyone blind to their true nature will convince himself of anything.

It would be good to know which Directives you don't like and you think Boris will dispense with and not replace post Brexit.

Whilst you are suspicious of Brussels my experience tells me that Whitehall and Local Government are a far greater problem. I give you two examples.

Our local Tory Council decided they would give themselves planning permission for 200 houses on a council estate open green space and playing fields. Naturally there was an uproar which was ignored by the Tory dominated Council. However The SEA Directive (Directive 2001/42/EC) required the Council to reveal the full information that led to the decision including alternative site assessments and as a result it was clear there were better alternatives ( not owned by the Council ) and as a result the Council plan was thrown out by the Planning Inspector.

Another more personal one. Forty years ago I bought a crashed vintage car in bits. We rebuilt it and it has been on the road ever since. In 2015 the DVLA decided that the date of car was to be set at the date of its youngest major component. In my case the chassis had been written off by hitting a tree at Oulton Park. In the DVLA's view it was a 1980 car not a 1927 one. Being a 1980 car it had to pass 1980 Type Approval before it could go back on the road. I was not a happy bunny. However I and many others were saved by Article 4 Clause 7 in the Directive 2014/45/EU. The Directive clearly stated that the car was still 1927 as it had: “not undergone substantial changes in the technical characteristics of its main components”.

After 31st October the EU will be no longer to blame. I fear that far from taking back control we ordinary citizens and particularly farmers will lose control.

 

[7610 super q]

It would be good to know which Directives you don't like and you think Boris will dispense with and not replace post Brexit.

Whilst you are suspicious of Brussels my experience tells me that Whitehall and Local Government are a far greater problem. I give you two examples.

Our local Tory Council decided they would give themselves planning permission for 200 houses on a council estate open green space and playing fields. Naturally there was an uproar which was ignored by the Tory dominated Council. However The SEA Directive (Directive 2001/42/EC) required the Council to reveal the full information that led to the decision including alternative site assessments and as a result it was clear there were better alternatives ( not owned by the Council ) and as a result the Council plan was thrown out by the Planning Inspector.

Another more personal one. Forty years ago I bought a crashed vintage car in bits. We rebuilt it and it has been on the road ever since. In 2015 the DVLA decided that the date of car was to be set at the date of its youngest major component. In my case the chassis had been written off by hitting a tree at Oulton Park. In the DVLA's view it was a 1980 car not a 1927 one. Being a 1980 car it had to pass 1980 Type Approval before it could go back on the road. I was not a happy bunny. However I and many others were saved by Article 4 Clause 7 in the Directive 2014/45/EU. The Directive clearly stated that the car was still 1927 as it had: “not undergone substantial changes in the technical characteristics of its main components”.

After 31st October the EU will be no longer to blame. I fear that far from taking back control we ordinary citizens and particularly farmers will lose control.

Wow. The EU has saved your classic car. That must compensate for destroying the entire agricultural industry then.

 

[jendan]

Wow. The EU has saved your classic car. That must compensate for destroying the entire agricultural industry then.

As far as our Agricultural industry is concerned,if we leave with no deal,you aint seen nothing yet!!! What do you think is going to develope in some of the burnt Amazon rain forest?...........My guess is soya beans and Beef cattle,more of which will be heading our way.

 

[Austin7]

I am only saying it because it's slightly unfair on forum members who venture down here to immediately be slagged off. Do you want this area to be solely occupied by the dozen or so of us who all know each others opinions ad nauseam and a debate that mostly goes round in circles. Because, I wish more members would participate to keep interesting debate going. Heaven knows there is no shortage of areas that could be discussed.

Thanks Muckspreader but no need to be concerned that a forum new boy like me might be put off. I find it interesting that despite my prodding over the last week or two not one meaningful line of argument has come forward to justify a farming vote to leave on a No Deal basis. Posts that depend to playing the man and not the ball are not a sign of strength rather the opposite. They just cause me to smile.

 

[7610 super q]

As far as our Agricultural industry is concerned,if we leave with no deal,you aint seen nothing yet!!! What do you think is going to develope in some of the burnt Amazon rain forest?...........My guess is soya beans and Beef cattle,more of which will be heading our way.

So people keep saying. The fact we've lost 52% of farmers since 1972 seems lost on some.

 

[czechmate]

So people keep saying. The fact we've lost 52% of farmers since 1972 seems lost on some.

Are tractors and combine harvesters fitted with larger engines now, than in 1972? If so, do you think this may have caused farmer numbers to decline? Or is that possibility lost on you?
Btw, my son on his own was on a machine knocking out 70 plus tonnes of wheat per hour last week (not a large combine in 2019), what would an average machine do in 1972?
I wasn’t farming but would hazard a guess at around 4 tons/hour?

 

[Danllan]

It would be good to know which Directives you don't like and you think Boris will dispense with and not replace post Brexit.

Whilst you are suspicious of Brussels my experience tells me that Whitehall and Local Government are a far greater problem...

Interesting, you made some points and want responses to them while studiously avoiding direct answers to questions put to you... we had a chap with that style before, apparently he 'couldn't be wrong'. I don't intend this as an insult but... you're not a solicitor, are you?

Right, I'll be happy to give chapter and verse on why I dislike any number of the EC's undemocratically imposed Regulations and Directives, and will go into the most precise legal detail, if so required. But, so as to allow me some base to move off from with you, let's agree upon and then work from first principles and facts that are indisputable and see where we get...

In an earlier post you made the point, and have stuck to it, that the EU was / is good for agriculture (specifically that of the UK) and went further to state that you were astonished that any UK farmer had voted to leave the EU. I can't see you arguing with any of that, so I'll take it as agree and move on.

I don't say you are right in what you have asserted but, if it is the case, are you stating that UK farmers should, and are foolish not to, only vote along the line of a relatively narrow agricultural self-interest, rather than what they see as in the wider, national interest? Answer that and we'll proceed.

If I may make a partial digression, may I ask a few questions 'for background'? Where are you, in the UK, if so which area? Do you think democracy is superior to the alternatives? Parliament's own constitution notwithstanding, do you think sovereignty lies with the people who then lend it to Parliament, or with Parliament solely? (more accurately, with the Queen in Parliament)

Are tractors and combine harvesters fitted with larger engines now, than in 1972? If so, do you think this may have caused farmer numbers to decline? Or is that possibility lost on you?
Btw, my son on his own was on a machine knocking out 70 plus tonnes of wheat per hour last week (not a large combine in 2019), what would an average machine do in 1972?
I wasn’t farming but would hazard a guess at around 4 tons/hour?

Fair points, heard them before and they do add up;, but nowhere near enough to account for the losses - maybe a bit over 40%, but no more.

 

[czechmate]

Interesting, you made some points and want responses to them while studiously avoiding direct answers to questions put to you... we had a chap with that style before, apparently he 'couldn't be wrong'. I don't intend this as an insult but... you're not a solicitor, are you?

Right, I'll be happy to give chapter and verse on why I dislike any number of the EC's undemocratically imposed Regulations and Directives, and will go into the most precise legal detail, if so required. But, so as to allow me some base to move off from with you, let's agree upon and then work from first principles and facts that are indisputable and see where we get...

In an earlier post you made the point, and have stuck to it, that the EU was / is good for agriculture (specifically that of the UK) and went further to state that you were astonished that any UK farmer had voted to leave the EU. I can't see you arguing with any of that, so I'll take it as agree and move on.

I don't say you are right in what you have asserted but, if it is the case, are you stating that UK farmers should, and are foolish not to, only vote along the line of a relatively narrow agricultural self-interest, rather than what they see as in the wider, national interest? Answer that and we'll proceed.

If I may make a partial digression, may I ask a few questions 'for background'? Where are you, in the UK, if so which area? Do you think democracy is superior to the alternatives? Parliament's own constitution notwithstanding, do you think sovereignty lies with the people who then lend it to Parliament, or with Parliament solely? (more accurately, with the Queen in Parliament)



Fair points, heard them before and they do add up;, but nowhere near enough to account for the losses - maybe a bit over 40%, but no more.

Combine output from 4 to 90 tonnes per hour. I’m surprised there’s 48% of farmers left.

 

[Henarar]

Combine output from 4 to 90 tonnes per hour. I’m surprised there’s 48% of farmers left.

those left are just running faster to stand still

 

[7610 super q]

WTF has combine output got to do with farmers leaving the industry ?

 

[Martin Holden]

I’m no fan of Goves but the questioning from Andrew Marr this morning left a lot to be desired. Now, I quite like Marr but he kept on and on about the suspension of Parliament. Why? Parliament has had 3 years to debate this and they voted Mays deal down 3 times which in fact would have met with Labours position on Brexit although I can’t be sure what that is to be honest. The UK government are dealing with a few European politicians here who have taken Europe down a path that the UK in general never wanted. If the Europeans politicians involved had an ounce of sense, they may have seen the outcome of the referendum. As it is we face a stand off and in that situation you can’t prevaricate! You have to stand your ground.

 

[arcobob]

As far as our Agricultural industry is concerned,if we leave with no deal,you aint seen nothing yet!!! What do you think is going to develope in some of the burnt Amazon rain forest?...........My guess is soya beans and Beef cattle,more of which will be heading our way.

Well that will be playing an even hand---beef for the meat eaters and beans for the vegans. Not quite sure where that stands with Brexit though.

 

[czechmate]

WTF has combine output got to do with farmers leaving the industry ?

WTF has combine output got to do with farmers leaving the industry ?

I am struggling to believe this is a serious question...
On the off chance it is, spend a week on your classic, then an hour on a quad track, then see if you can ask that question with a straight face

 

[7610 super q]

I am struggling to believe this is a serious question...
On the off chance it is, spend a week on your classic, then an hour on a quad track, then see if you can ask that question with a straight face

So you think the modern combine is responsible for the demise of family farms ?
Something to blame rather than EU , I suppose..........

 

[czechmate]

Big bales - little bale
Big tractor - little tractor
Bulk milk - churns
Robot milking - buckets

The combine was an illustration, so sorry for giving you credit for any sense.
Actually you point is soooo daft, I know you are just on a wind up

 

[czechmate]

Big bales - little bale
Big tractor - little tractor
Bulk milk - churns
Robot milking - buckets

The combine was an illustration, so sorry for giving you credit for any sense.
Actually you point is soooo daft, I know you are just on a wind up

 

[bobk]

So you think the modern combine is responsible for the demise of family farms ?
Something to blame rather than EU , I suppose..........

EU subsidy has led to the reduction of farms ....

As @czechmate himself said ....... the sub will pay the interest and appreciation will look after the rest .

Selective memory .