Some of it though I am always keen to learn, but still thickDid I get you to understand?
WOW that's a good offerIf someone asks, I'll happily discuss it but only friends get that for free now.
This might bring on a 'good' debate
- Thread starter romneymarsh
- Start date
The truth
Member
- Location
- North Yorkshire
I agree we don't record enough even close to it! Social side is great alongside the prestige, but in reality efficiency is what's required
Yes they have been back over all the previous CT scans and revaluated them, there are sheep out there with good loins not over fat but with intramuscular fat, also looked at spinal length at same time I believe, It would be wrong to assume that to get lumps of meat you have to condense a bone structure, or that a lump of meat is necessarily inedible. all interesting stuff which you can't see from the outside on the end of a halter.
I agree with most of that, I write off the cost of CT scanning as my hobby/interest, it does improve my accuracies, but as most buyers look at you as if your from another planet when you talk to them about it, in fact one chap last year cut me dead with ''yeh yeh heard it all before'' I just do it because I'm fascinated.
its not rocket science.
teaching something is another matter - challenging to all but the best communicators. .
- Location
- Welshman living in Nottinghamshire
Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
Wow what a cynical interpretation that is. Most farmers are definitely not thick, they just have the one opportunity annually to refresh themselves with what the data means and to extract those part of the data of most use to their flock breeding direction. Most are good enough stockmen to assess structural soundness and type to suit their environment, but the evolution of performance recording has been ongoing as both genetic studies and computer capability has improved the quality and trait quantity of the outputs.
I produced 2 newsletters per year, much of the content explaining such improvements to my clients. The greatest help I offered (from client feed back) was asking them which were the 3 most important traits they considered most important to improve in their flock. Once identified, show them the data, pick out 2 to 3 times the number of rams they want which had superior figures for those traits and then leave them to sort out which animals they liked from that selection. Initially most clients wanted more lambing %, but once triplets started increasing they put either growth rate or resistance to worms as no.1 priority (that usually followed once they did a drench efficacy test).
I have been selling rams since 1984. Most of that time sale numbers exceeded 500 rams per year......I do understand farmers. It is the ram breeders job to explain the data to their clients, as all salesmen have the duty to explain their product.
I fully appreciate that most of the rams sold in the UK are at public auctions. This makes it very difficult for breeders to sell their product by explaining the figures, therefore difficult for farmers to comprehend due to lack of exposure.
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
this topic would be great to see live
Lovegoodstock
Member
- Location
- Buckinghamshire
Agree with the post with the voting of using ebvs, I don't and wilst to a passing interest in thread, didn't vote. When 70 per cent of our lamb ends up in supermarkets, would more e/u grade lamb result in an increased export? I personally doubt it. Yes quicker finishing time should result in increased profitability as would meat to carcass ratio, but improving results on europ grid will only result in r grades being hammered in price, or even u- if we get successful. Eblex produced a leaflet that stated it was not possible to select a bull on eye alone. On the same leaflet it was suggesting when to aid a calving cow, one point was when the calf being born had a swollen tongue, I will leave it at that. I believe ebvs can improve efficiency in the right hands, my biggest concern is a natural stockman seems to be a dieing trend where as used to be common
I'm a cynical sort of guy and in that pretty representative of many farmers.
Henry Ford said that if he gave people what they'd asked for he'd have been breeding faster horses. I understand then that you can't be entirely market lead or that stifles innovation. However successful technologies tap into a want or need people didn't realise they needed until you introduce it and then they take off. That's why I say EBVs are a solution looking for a problem. People can manage perfectly well without them that haven't bought into the value yet.
However the whisper now is that the Texel trials are confident of producing a mastitis GBV and that the trait is about 23% heritable. Now that would be a game changer and may be the way in for many to EBVs, in Texels anyway.
You'll also find out then that I'm not too proud to shout that from the rooftops of it happens...
Auctions actually give you the chance of contacting a lot more customers and explaining things. Human nature being what it is though the tight lipped buggers don't want to show too much interest in your stock before hand, when you can make most difference!
- Location
- Derbyshire
I wonder if it is worth drawing your attention to the pig industry.... How much of UK pig meat is supplied by pedigree breeders? How many boar lines are supplied by pedigree breeders? How many commercial farmers show pigs??
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
not a fair comparrison, most reared indoors on similar management and intensive diets ,(i know some are outdoor but still on high concentrate diet ) various climatic and nutritional issues with regard sheep means there wil always be a multitude of markets . any EBV will struggle to encompass all types of rearing system
- Location
- Derbyshire
The point was about the insinuation that those who are forward thinking in our industry simply flit about between what is fashionable. This is not my experience at all. The idea that we should 'do it this way' because 'we always have' didn't cut it in the pig industry. 6000 dairy farmers record data and utilise EBVs in their breeding and 95% of pig farmers use breeding companies who rely on EBVs. Signet records approximately 200,000 sheep per year... not enough but the lower amount of data simply limits the speed of genetic improvement rather than prevents genetic improvement.
Pig farming had to up its game - there were no subsidies.and with such slim margins efficiency had to increase you cant farm pigs with a dog and stick
It is. In return I'll draw your attention to the fact sheep are not pigs.
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
but , after 20 + years of signet , the general run of terminal progeny is only as good as a lot of the unrecorded stock off the better units (the stuff sold as commercial ) often worse by the time they have been on a commercial farm for 12 months , by now they should be so far ahead that unrecorded flocks should be falling by the wayside or jumping on board , so you can see our sceptisim regard sheep terminal ebv , I have a few customers that went away to try them now mostly all back . As far as systems in other countries the jury is still out though i see the NZ bloodlines gaining ground so there is a positive for their system .