This NFU 'produced to our standards' malarkey

Ashtree

Member
I came across this thread just this evening. I have read through all the posts, with a mixture of mirth and incredulity.
Why so, did I hear you ask?
Quite simple really. I urge all you folks, now worried and concerned about the future of British farming, to cast your minds back to the attitude of many of you, before the referendum.
If you have forgotten, just flip back to the very many threads and posts on what you saw as the “golden future of British agriculture, in a Brexit world”!
May I remind you briefly of the primary take aways from your vision of post Brexit farming ..... as seemingly many of you have conveniently or otherwise forgotten.
1. NFU were classed as “traitors”, for supporting remain.
2. All EU regulations were nothing short of stupid “protectionism”, which hampered the derring do, trading and export tendencies of British farmers and businesses.
3. The afore mentioned EU regs as well as the Red Tractor scam, were nothing more than job creation schemes for civil servants.
4. The clamour was for nothing short of a hard no deal Brexit, which would slam big tariffs on food imports.
5. I seem to remember that many of you had a “rightful” expectation that the British people, once freed from the shackles of the spiteful EU, would be proud to support British farmers buying British first.
6. You were excited for a future of growing GM crops, unhindered by the “protectionist” EU.
7. Britain would forge ahead of the EU, by quickly and rapidly agreeing trade deals with all and sundry. Indeed I saw many of you claim, there was a long qeue of countries lined up begging to be first to get a deal with Britain. Needless to say, the EU would have utterly “crapped” themselves and lain prostrate before Liam Fox looking for a deal.
Farming of course would benefit enormously.

And there you have it folks. The foreseen dawn of a golden era for British farming post no deal hard as nails Brexit, in the cold light of the day, now looks like a dim and distant memory.

Finally if I may leave you with one further thought. Farming and rural folks, make up 2.5% of the electorate. You don’t fudgin count when it comes to the real horse trading of trade deals.
 

mwj

Member
Location
Illinois USA
We can supply you with beef and chicken that matches or exceeds your standards. We are a very diverse producer when it comes to Ag production, we are not all the same. The question I have, is a lot of your problems caused by overwhelming regulation of producers by your own government?:rolleyes:
 

Banana Bar

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Many practises including growth hormone implants, in both dairy and beef cattle are banned here and in the EU.
Environmental protection is unknown in many countries.
Our much vaunted Red Tractor chain includes any contractor employed by you, both his kit and his qualifications.
Some meat production lines concentrate on chlorine washing at the point of slaughter, rather than food hygiene throughout - which we have.
Red Tractor insists on knowing when and with what I’ve wormed the cat. :rolleyes:

All this is supposed to give us an edge on marketing and price. It does not. It adds costs, in some cases, large ones, but little value. And family farms in the UK are increasingly used as window dressing, to ‘assure’ everything on the supermarket shelf, by association.

Spot on.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
If the UK has to import nearly half its food doesn't it make sense to have as many trade deals as possible.

We can supply you with beef and chicken that matches or exceeds your standards. We are a very diverse producer when it comes to Ag production, we are not all the same. The question I have, is a lot of your problems caused by overwhelming regulation of producers by your own government?:rolleyes:

Yes of course you can, the whole point of exporting is you provide what the customer wants. You probably have some rules and regulations that the UK doesn't too.
Hormones and chlorine washed chicken get mentioned all the time. From the UK farmer point of view they need a better argument than that because from your side it would be easy to say "ok no chlorine no hormones , we can do that, sign here.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
We can supply you with beef and chicken that matches or exceeds your standards. We are a very diverse producer when it comes to Ag production, we are not all the same. The question I have, is a lot of your problems caused by overwhelming regulation of producers by your own government?:rolleyes:
yes of Corse it is
But if those standards were brought it to protect consumer health then they should apply to imports as well
why prevent people from getting ill from eating home grow food only to import food that makes them ill ?
I those standards were brought in to protect animal welfare then they to should apply to import food unless you think its ok to miss treat animals in other countries
and so on and so on
if you can produce to our standards and regulations then fair enough bring it on
if you can't then feck off and take your rubbish with you
simple enough really and what its all about
so :rolleyes: to you to
 
We can supply you with beef and chicken that matches or exceeds your standards. We are a very diverse producer when it comes to Ag production, we are not all the same. The question I have, is a lot of your problems caused by overwhelming regulation of producers by your own government?:rolleyes:

Yes. The problems and associated cost, are caused by layers of over regulation in our our country. Undermined totally if we allow produce in which is grown to substantially lower standards, which we are not allowed to mirror Even if we wanted to.
I have no wish to be window dressing for rapacious supermarket buyers.
 

Raider112

Member
I came across this thread just this evening. I have read through all the posts, with a mixture of mirth and incredulity.
Why so, did I hear you ask?
Quite simple really. I urge all you folks, now worried and concerned about the future of British farming, to cast your minds back to the attitude of many of you, before the referendum.
If you have forgotten, just flip back to the very many threads and posts on what you saw as the “golden future of British agriculture, in a Brexit world”!
May I remind you briefly of the primary take aways from your vision of post Brexit farming ..... as seemingly many of you have conveniently or otherwise forgotten.
1. NFU were classed as “traitors”, for supporting remain.
2. All EU regulations were nothing short of stupid “protectionism”, which hampered the derring do, trading and export tendencies of British farmers and businesses.
3. The afore mentioned EU regs as well as the Red Tractor scam, were nothing more than job creation schemes for civil servants.
4. The clamour was for nothing short of a hard no deal Brexit, which would slam big tariffs on food imports.
5. I seem to remember that many of you had a “rightful” expectation that the British people, once freed from the shackles of the spiteful EU, would be proud to support British farmers buying British first.
6. You were excited for a future of growing GM crops, unhindered by the “protectionist” EU.
7. Britain would forge ahead of the EU, by quickly and rapidly agreeing trade deals with all and sundry. Indeed I saw many of you claim, there was a long qeue of countries lined up begging to be first to get a deal with Britain. Needless to say, the EU would have utterly “crapped” themselves and lain prostrate before Liam Fox looking for a deal.
Farming of course would benefit enormously.

And there you have it folks. The foreseen dawn of a golden era for British farming post no deal hard as nails Brexit, in the cold light of the day, now looks like a dim and distant memory.

Finally if I may leave you with one further thought. Farming and rural folks, make up 2.5% of the electorate. You don’t fudgin count when it comes to the real horse trading of trade deals.
You wish we all had the same view as you about Brexit but that would have meant the whole of UK Ag would be as miserable as Buxxxxy right now. No thanks, if this Forum had hundreds of posters putting the same stuff you come out with we would all be on anti depressants.
Another thing to bear in mind is that the small percentage of farmers you mention means that even if we had all voted Remain we would still be leaving so at least this way some of us aren't bitter and twisted.
 

Raider112

Member
I don't understand the cause for argument.

If the UK wants to import chicken or beef from the USA, there will be producers that can meet existing standards, just as Brazil and Thailand do today. What is wrong with that?
And it will mainly replace those products, so that will be in catering and the likes so we have no say over whether we want to use them or not, before you know it they become accepted and end up undercutting our products in the supermarkets while us mugs carry on producing to our standards till we go bankrupt and give them a free run.
 

delilah

Member
You still have any Devon & Cornwall Longwools or have you sold them all?

You're allowed two more guesses :) .

Though i'd rather have a constructive discussion about this NFU campaign. Below the questions I asked earlier, any answers you can provide would help us all get a handle on things. Over 4k views; I can't be the only one wanting further detail. Thanks (y).

In signing up the general public, and one of the nations favourite sons, the NFU are staking their credibility on this campaign.

Where are the guidelines to say what the campaign is actually calling for ? That example you give. How much of the meat currently imported legally in to the UK will have had to comply with those requirements ? Any of it ?

If the NFU are saying - and their petition suggests that they are saying this - that all rules and regulations in place in the UK need to be matched abroad, then all food imports stop. Not just US hormone beef and chlorinated chicken. All of them.

Is this what the NFU are saying ? Are they telling the 300,000 people who have signed their petition this ?

I'm not being the awkward squad here, I just want to understand what it's all about.
 

Dalehitchy

New Member
I came across this thread just this evening. I have read through all the posts, with a mixture of mirth and incredulity.
Why so, did I hear you ask?
Quite simple really. I urge all you folks, now worried and concerned about the future of British farming, to cast your minds back to the attitude of many of you, before the referendum.
If you have forgotten, just flip back to the very many threads and posts on what you saw as the “golden future of British agriculture, in a Brexit world”!
May I remind you briefly of the primary take aways from your vision of post Brexit farming ..... as seemingly many of you have conveniently or otherwise forgotten.
1. NFU were classed as “traitors”, for supporting remain.
2. All EU regulations were nothing short of stupid “protectionism”, which hampered the derring do, trading and export tendencies of British farmers and businesses.
3. The afore mentioned EU regs as well as the Red Tractor scam, were nothing more than job creation schemes for civil servants.
4. The clamour was for nothing short of a hard no deal Brexit, which would slam big tariffs on food imports.
5. I seem to remember that many of you had a “rightful” expectation that the British people, once freed from the shackles of the spiteful EU, would be proud to support British farmers buying British first.
6. You were excited for a future of growing GM crops, unhindered by the “protectionist” EU.
7. Britain would forge ahead of the EU, by quickly and rapidly agreeing trade deals with all and sundry. Indeed I saw many of you claim, there was a long qeue of countries lined up begging to be first to get a deal with Britain. Needless to say, the EU would have utterly “crapped” themselves and lain prostrate before Liam Fox looking for a deal.
Farming of course would benefit enormously.

And there you have it folks. The foreseen dawn of a golden era for British farming post no deal hard as nails Brexit, in the cold light of the day, now looks like a dim and distant memory.

Finally if I may leave you with one further thought. Farming and rural folks, make up 2.5% of the electorate. You don’t fudgin count when it comes to the real horse trading of trade deals.


Here here. Absolutely spot on. I was hearing and reading the exact same thing from farmers either face to face or online. By and large this demographic voted leave and discounting these very things as project fear. I hate the expression but what we said has indeed turned into project reality.

I can only laugh in dispair at the realisation of new trade deals undercutting you lot. If you think the likes of trump and the American farmers lobby will accept a tarriffs on their meat and produce to ensure they cant undercut British farmers you need a reality check. They know.... As does the rest of the world, that the UK is now in a weak position and its either like it or lump it.

Boris will pretend he's fighting your corner but like he always does, he will give in and allow America to undercut British farmers. Then it comes to labelling. He will give in there too.

The rest of you lot that think 'the British public will use local butchers and buy british' are the worst. They won't. And what happens to the ready meals and restaurants; they won't advertise 'our meat is hormone injected and sourced from the US'.

I at least will be at peace when most of you start to struggle against US mega corps and lobbies and I can say told you so. I remember so many Brexiters saying leaving the EU will be worth the pain for your freedom. Well here is your freedom. Being tied to the US rules and going out of business.
 

Agrivator

Member
You're allowed two more guesses :) .

Though i'd rather have a constructive discussion about this NFU campaign. Below the questions I asked earlier, any answers you can provide would help us all get a handle on things. Over 4k views; I can't be the only one wanting further detail. Thanks (y).

In signing up the general public, and one of the nations favourite sons, the NFU are staking their credibility on this campaign.

Where are the guidelines to say what the campaign is actually calling for ? That example you give. How much of the meat currently imported legally in to the UK will have had to comply with those requirements ? Any of it ?

If the NFU are saying - and their petition suggests that they are saying this - that all rules and regulations in place in the UK need to be matched abroad, then all food imports stop. Not just US hormone beef and chlorinated chicken. All of them.

Is this what the NFU are saying ? Are they telling the 300,000 people who have signed their petition this ?

I'm not being the awkward squad here, I just want to understand what it's all about.

I was thinking the same. If we sign up to the NFU's campaign, will we just be rolling over and creating yet even more onerous, useless, needless, pointless regulations being added each year to our ''Farm Assurance'' schemes?

Every year I get a tome of new updates to the Beef and Sheep scheme in Scotland. Each year it gets thrown onto the junk pile.
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
I was thinking the same. If we sign up to the NFU's campaign, will we just be rolling over and creating yet even more onerous, useless, needless, pointless regulations being added each year to our ''Farm Assurance'' schemes?

Every year I get a tome of new updates to the Beef and Sheep scheme in Scotland. Each year it gets thrown onto the junk pile.
You wont get any farm related mail once imports have put you out of business. Its a no brainer
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Here here. Absolutely spot on. I was hearing and reading the exact same thing from farmers either face to face or online. By and large this demographic voted leave and discounting these very things as project fear. I hate the expression but what we said has indeed turned into project reality.

I can only laugh in dispair at the realisation of new trade deals undercutting you lot. If you think the likes of trump and the American farmers lobby will accept a tarriffs on their meat and produce to ensure they cant undercut British farmers you need a reality check. They know.... As does the rest of the world, that the UK is now in a weak position and its either like it or lump it.

Boris will pretend he's fighting your corner but like he always does, he will give in and allow America to undercut British farmers. Then it comes to labelling. He will give in there too.

The rest of you lot that think 'the British public will use local butchers and buy british' are the worst. They won't. And what happens to the ready meals and restaurants; they won't advertise 'our meat is hormone injected and sourced from the US'.

I at least will be at peace when most of you start to struggle against US mega corps and lobbies and I can say told you so. I remember so many Brexiters saying leaving the EU will be worth the pain for your freedom. Well here is your freedom. Being tied to the US rules and going out of business.
oh well such is life
you lot
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Here here. Absolutely spot on. I was hearing and reading the exact same thing from farmers either face to face or online. By and large this demographic voted leave and discounting these very things as project fear. I hate the expression but what we said has indeed turned into project reality.

I can only laugh in dispair at the realisation of new trade deals undercutting you lot. If you think the likes of trump and the American farmers lobby will accept a tarriffs on their meat and produce to ensure they cant undercut British farmers you need a reality check. They know.... As does the rest of the world, that the UK is now in a weak position and its either like it or lump it.

Boris will pretend he's fighting your corner but like he always does, he will give in and allow America to undercut British farmers. Then it comes to labelling. He will give in there too.

The rest of you lot that think 'the British public will use local butchers and buy british' are the worst. They won't. And what happens to the ready meals and restaurants; they won't advertise 'our meat is hormone injected and sourced from the US'.

I at least will be at peace when most of you start to struggle against US mega corps and lobbies and I can say told you so. I remember so many Brexiters saying leaving the EU will be worth the pain for your freedom. Well here is your freedom. Being tied to the US rules and going out of business.

As far as I can tell UK supermarkets could be full of "foreign food" now, Polish beef or NZ lamb for example, but they're not. Why will it be different with America? Do you know their cost of production? I doubt they can compete with Larry and his Polish Beef.
Why cant a trade deal be an opportunity to export into another market?
 
And it will mainly replace those products, so that will be in catering and the likes so we have no say over whether we want to use them or not, before you know it they become accepted and end up undercutting our products in the supermarkets while us mugs carry on producing to our standards till we go bankrupt and give them a free run.

But you have no say over the importation, sale or consumption of chicken or product from Brazil or Thailand today, why is US product so different?

'........while us mugs carry on producing to our standards till we go bankrupt and give them a free run.....'

This isn't happening at present then?
 
As far as I can tell UK supermarkets could be full of "foreign food" now, Polish beef or NZ lamb for example, but they're not. Why will it be different with America? Do you know their cost of production? I doubt they can compete with Larry and his Polish Beef.
Why cant a trade deal be an opportunity to export into another market?

The UK can legally import meat products from a mind-boggling array of countries worldwide already. Very little of this sees the light of day on a shop shelf. I can only presume it is either not cost-effective or simply isn't offered because supermarkets don't think it would sell. I don't see why US, Polish or Australian beef would automatically be any different.

Has anyone established the actual production cost of US beef because I'm not convinced it is automatically cheaper than UK product.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
I keep saying this but people either don't want to listen or maybe don't want to understand. We export to U.K we have to meet U.K standards both government and Customer standards for instance we have Tesco's Nature's Choice accreditation (at Gold) we have Global GAP (no non conformities). However we will not be supplying much through the U.K summer because the Supermarkets support the U.K farmer rather than buying from us even though they will pay more and generally U.K product is not as nicely packed.
With regard to beef etc it's unlikely that overseas product will enter the market unless it's significantly cheaper or better quality or as is more likely to fill a deficit in local production.
Believe it or not life has been tough for the Supermarkets as well. The cheap food policy is pushed by Governments not retailers that's the reason there are so few Supermarket chains 5% profit only works when you are turning over a lot of money.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 78 42.9%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.5%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 5 2.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top