This section has become rather repetitive and boring recently, so...

[Danllan]

Bearing in mind how it has been, how it is and how it is likely to be in the foreseeable future, would it be a good thing for the rest of the World to isolate China - while it is under the dictatorship of the CCP - rather that to continually 'humour' it?

 

[ollie989898]

Bearing in mind how it has been, how it is and how it is likely to be in the foreseeable future, would it be a good thing for the rest of the World to isolate China - while it is under the dictatorship of the CCP - rather that to continually 'humour' it?

Isolating China- not really practical because it would cost Western companies big money, not just in lost manufacturing (i.e margin) but also it would make it rather difficult to sell them Teslas and Ipads in future.

 

[le bon paysan]

Doesn't China hold a large chunk of American debt?

 

[Goweresque]

Doesn't China hold a large chunk of American debt?

Thats a bit like having a large deposit in a bank thats broke. Its not the bank that will be worried, its the creditor who will be having sleepless nights.............

 

[M-J-G]

Thats a bit like having a large deposit in a bank thats broke. Its not the bank that will be worried, its the creditor who will be having sleepless nights.............

What was used as security though?

 

[Goweresque]

What was used as security though?

There isn't any. Government debt is just a promise to pay. If the Government in question decides not to pay, or (more likely) pays the creditor back in devalued currency then there's not much the creditor can do, short of war..............

 

[Pasty]

What was used as security though?

Nothing after Bretton Woods. Then they call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme. This looks a bit like a house of cards, hence the 'Great Reset' where a few will win and millions will be consigned to poverty. Total central bank world digital currency. Automatic taxation and cash will be banned. Its really the only way out of this mess. Plus, once it's all in place, they can start printing again.

 

[Ashtree]

We need more “contrarians”. I’d volunteer myself, but I wouldn’t have the talent.

 

[Mek]

Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer.

 

[Danllan]

Isolating China- not really practical because it would cost Western companies big money, not just in lost manufacturing (i.e margin) but also it would make it rather difficult to sell them Teslas and Ipads in future.

Depends... if there is a staggered disinvestment from China and investment in a variety of alternative countries such as Vietnam, Brazil etc., it needn't hit them hard. Another alternative is for governments (i.e. countries) to compensate firms for losses from leaving China.

The future is the important thing; thing is, the future is pretty bleak under any scenario involving CCP dominance. China needs to import an awful lot of stuff and this leaves it in a vulnerable position and, despite its growing internal market, if it doesn't or, rather, can't sell its crap abroad it has a big problem.

For a long time in the 1930s people ignored Churchill's warnings about Germany; the politicians who are flagging up China now are being similarly rubbished...

 

[arcobob]

Nothing after Bretton Woods. Then they call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme. This looks a bit like a house of cards, hence the 'Great Reset' where a few will win and millions will be consigned to poverty. Total central bank world digital currency. Automatic taxation and cash will be banned. Its really the only way out of this mess. Plus, once it's all in place, they can start printing again.

Not sure where Bretton woods is unless it is near Peterborough.

 

[AgriTom]

There is a war being fought with China, but a bullet will not be fired and no bombs will be dropped.

The problem with the CCP is how good they are. Look at what they've done with ports in Africa.

"Sure we'll set up a port in your town and you can pay us back in 5 years!"

*5 years passes*

"Oh that's a shame, you can't pay us? Well, we'll still be here free of charge, but we expect these benefits in return.."

They then proceed to effectively control hundreds of small East African towns, getting cheaper labour, holds on their local government, slowly working their way north and south..

Imagine if any of governments tried that, people would be crying over foreign investments. But just another day for the CCP. What we need is Blocs like the EU, but for the sole purpose of negating the control of China.

 

[Foxhollow]

Depends... if there is a staggered disinvestment from China and investment in a variety of alternative countries such as Vietnam, Brazil etc., it needn't hit them hard. Another alternative is for governments (i.e. countries) to compensate firms for losses from leaving China.

The future is the important thing; thing is, the future is pretty bleak under any scenario involving CCP dominance. China needs to import an awful lot of stuff and this leaves it in a vulnerable position and, despite its growing internal market, if it doesn't or, rather, can't sell its crap abroad it has a big problem.

For a long time in the 1930s people ignored Churchill's warnings about Germany; the politicians who are flagging up China now are being similarly rubbished...

My thoughts are that if you think that we can turn off China and not import anything from them you are disillusioned. It will take at least a generation for Western countries to go back to setting up and producing what China currently produces, even if we have the appetite and accept the cost of doing this as it will be the goods themselves that will have to take account of the cost of doing that.

Whether we like it or not China is a world power we cannot change that. Just look at where China has come from in the last 50 years. Yes there there are quite a lot of things in China which may seem unpalatable for us in our current social mindset today, but it has evolved considerably in the last 20 years. China has evolved from a feudal existence to a world power in 50 years which has taken us at least 200 yrs. So we would be best to try and nurture China and speed up their internal processes and policies with respect to human rights and working standards. Also before we chastise China also look at Russia which has just as bad abuse of human rights but we do not challenge them as far as investment in our country.

 

[M-J-G]

People can fight China if they want, but you cannot turn the tide, it looks like it's their turn just like it used be Britain's and America's

 

[Ramrod]

Not sure where Bretton woods is unless it is near Peterborough.

I think it's round the back of the Cresset Centre, Bob.
Then again it could mean something obscure, like a monetary arrangement??

 

[neilo]

To bring manufacturing home, not just to the Uk but elsewhere in the West too, it would need a long term government policy to do so. It would be expensive and unpopular with the electorate.
That would need an end to populism and career politicians who are only concerned about keeping their seat at the next election. That would require a radical shakeup in our political system, and in the voters’ mindsets.

 

[Vader]

Isolating China- not really practical because it would cost Western companies big money, not just in lost manufacturing (i.e margin) but also it would make it rather difficult to sell them Teslas and Ipads in future.

Really think China will want to buy those?

 

[arcobob]

I think it's round the back of the Cresset Centre, Bob.
Then again it could mean something obscure, like a monetary arrangement??

You could be right Rod. Are there a lot of Chinese in that area or just the odd takeaway?

 

[Goweresque]

Nothing after Bretton Woods. Then they call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme. This looks a bit like a house of cards, hence the 'Great Reset' where a few will win and millions will be consigned to poverty. Total central bank world digital currency. Automatic taxation and cash will be banned. Its really the only way out of this mess. Plus, once it's all in place, they can start printing again.

The end of currencies being backed by gold was in fact 1971. The Bretton Woods currency agreement of 1944 meant all non-US currencies were tied at fixed rates to the dollar, which itself was still tied to gold, though only for State to State transfers. Thus if a country's central bank ended up with a lot of US dollars (via foreign trade) it could take them to the US Treasury and demand the amount of gold those dollars represented. By the late 60s the US no longer had enough gold to pay for all the dollars it had printed to pay for the Vietnam War and all the extra welfare spending of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society, and thus in 1971 Richard Nixon was forced to unilaterally end the conversion of the dollar to gold, thus smashing the Bretton Woods system, and ushering in the era of global fiat currencies, which so far has lasted almost exactly 50 years. One doubts it will last another 50 years..........

 

[arcobob]

The end of currencies being backed by gold was in fact 1971. The Bretton Woods currency agreement of 1944 meant all non-US currencies were tied at fixed rates to the dollar, which itself was still tied to gold, though only for State to State transfers. Thus if a country's central bank ended up with a lot of US dollars (via foreign trade) it could take them to the US Treasury and demand the amount of gold those dollars represented. By the late 60s the US no longer had enough gold to pay for all the dollars it had printed to pay for the Vietnam War and all the extra welfare spending of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society, and thus in 1971 Richard Nixon was forced to unilaterally end the conversion of the dollar to gold, thus smashing the Bretton Woods system, and ushering in the era of global fiat currencies, which so far has lasted almost exactly 50 years. One doubts it will last another 50 years..........

Bugger