Thoughts on loosing BPS and replacing with ELMS?

[unlacedgecko]

Difficult situation for a three or four hundred acre tenanted family farm…
Mixed farming….Livestock and a bit of Grain largely for the Livestock etc.
Two generations involved, with another floating around, either Elderly Grandparents or Young Children.
Active Land Agent has the rent Sky high…Plenty of neighbours willing to pay more than that Blah Blah Blah etc etc….next rent review a few years down the line.
Whats the options?

1) Streamline the business to make a profit.

2) get a job.

 

[4course]

family farm better set for survival than anyone imo with low overheads and bps not a massive % of income

big, high cost, highly geared FBT / contract farm businesses at far great risk imo bps represents a big % of such business turnover

realising cicumstances alter cases but where is the ball park /benchmark figure for the % of bps to be as a measure of farm business turnover

 

[unlacedgecko]

realising cicumstances alter cases but where is the ball park /benchmark figure for the % of bps to be as a measure of farm business turnover

Look at the AHAB figures. For grazing livestock it appears to be in excess of 100% of profit.

 

[Clive]

realising cicumstances alter cases but where is the ball park /benchmark figure for the % of bps to be as a measure of farm business turnover

not sure there is one but it stands to reason that the more land you farm it’s likely the bigger your BPS cheque…….. was

contract farmers are unlikely to claim SFI on other peoples land

therefore the bogger hole you need to fill with cost savings ir higher gross output

 

[Courier]

This’ll make more folk consider the “retirement” option when the full details come out .

 

[delilah]

With regards how important the BPS chq is to a farming business, I suspect the statistics will show that it isn't big farms or small farms, or owned farms or tenanted farms, but PP farms.
Which is a handy coincidence, given that it is those farms that deliver the greatest 'public good' and as such should receive the most ELMS.

 

[oil barron]

This’ll make more folk consider the “retirement” option when the full details come out .

I don’t know WTF we have to pay them to retire. We’ve been paying them for the last 15 years not to retire. Just stop that and it will sort itself out.

 

[Ceri]

I don’t know WTF we have to pay them to retire. We’ve been paying them for the last 15 years not to retire. Just stop that and it will sort itself out.

Very well said..... Looks like the old owner occupiers will come up trumps again, they were paid thousands ££££ in subs to rent there farm out & do nothing now they're prob gonna be paid thousands ££££ to retire.......!! - Its bloody laughable really....
I always thought they were absolutely mad wanting to walk away from the bps but maybe they weren't so daft after all.....

 

[Tubbylew]

I don’t know WTF we have to pay them to retire. We’ve been paying them for the last 15 years not to retire. Just stop that and it will sort itself out.

Very well said..... Looks like the old owner occupiers will come up trumps again, they were paid thousands ££££ in subs to rent there farm out & do nothing now they're prob gonna be paid thousands ££££ to retire.......!! - Its bloody laughable really....
I always thought they were absolutely mad wanting to walk away from the bps but maybe they weren't so daft after all.....

I've said on here before that the very thought boils my pee, utter fecking madness.

 

[oil barron]

I've said on here before that the very thought boils my pee, utter fecking madness.

Britain’s boomer farmers. The most featherbedded generation in history. Now we have to contribute 2% of our pay packet for someone to wipe their arses.

 

[Greythundercloudys]

Still no word of the Scottish government scheme yet, but farming is more appreciated up here, Scottish brand, hills heather, bf sheep, so l think there maybe a safety net payment, 25£ an acre or such like or alot of upland permanent pasture payments for leaving it like it is.

 

[Fat hen]

the thread title

any one thinking ELMS will replace BPS is delusional - it may cover a small % of it at best

Time to learn to farm without subs for many

Everyone of us is in a different situation financially

 

[Fat hen]

My accountant estimates that most farmers he deals with make a profit that is 10 to 15% -/+ from the bps figure they receive.
IOW highly reliant on subsidy to make a living

 

[MCook]

My accountant estimates that most farmers he deals with make a profit that is 10 to 15% -/+ from the bps figure they receive.
IOW highly reliant on subsidy to make a living

This is my experience too. I have not seen many farming businesses that would make a profit, or even break-even, without BPS - this ignores other income streams such as rental etc.

 

[Old Tup]

1) Streamline the business to make a profit.

2) get a job.

Streamline the business…..Hmmmm
Scrap the Sheep…Scrap the Cattle….Scrap the Arable???
No doubt there will be room for a bit of efficiency gains….all of which will unfortunately probably cost money…
400 acres….mixed farm…..Two people required?
All Arable or all Sheep probably could get away with one person….Cattle Hmmmm?
Two families to provide an income for from the business..
No point in pretending that Family farms are more efficient…..many are ….but in many it simply comes down to what is in effect in many cases unpaid slave Labour.

 

[Grassman]

This is my experience too. I have not seen many farming businesses that would make a profit, or even break-even, without BPS - this ignores other income streams such as rental etc.

Is a profit after wages or before ?

 

[No wot]

The trouble is

very true farming is in a sad state and it doesn’t help have Stupid Eustice in place! Best thing would be sacking him.

It won't matter who's calling the shots or which colour partys in power , Brexit will finish many farms and a new slimmer leaner ,focused mainly larger outfits will prevail

 

[unlacedgecko]

Is a profit after wages or before ?

After

 

[Old Tup]

Is a profit after wages or before ?

Can get very murky……House…..Vehicle….fuel…..utility bills…etc etc
Self employed Private drawings….
Accountancy should bring it all to light…but.
All a bit different to a Cheque in the Bank at the end of the month…or however it is done.

 

[MCook]

After

Though with most farming businesses operating as sole trades or partnerships, there is a lot of unpaid labour not being accounted for in their results.