Time to go back in to Afghanistan
- Thread starter bobk
- Start date
We withdrew too early back in 2014/2015, despite everyone on the ground saying that they needed more time. Rubbish as it would be for the Afghans, for the UK the Taliban aren't the threat - any terrorist groups they allow to set up camps like Al Qaeda did are. Unlike 2001, the Brits and the Yanks have lots of drones to drop large bombs on those camps nowadays.
(To be honest though, I'm unconvinced the Taliban will even allow the camps to be set up again anyways, given the faff it caused them last time)
- Location
- West Suffolk
Wasn’t the original invasion back in 2003 to sort Al Qaeda out and get Bin Laden? If so that job was done wasn’t it?
I’d leave them to it now.
I’d leave them to it now.
Devil's advocate
Member
- Location
- Posh side of Barnsley
Odd that the Taliban get on well with the Chinese, given China's treatment of Muslims at home.
Maybe like when Stalin & Hitler signed a peace treaty.
Maybe like when Stalin & Hitler signed a peace treaty.
When you consider how they treated their Muslim subjects while in charge, it's hardly a shock. They follow an extreme form of the religion and hate/punish anyone who doesn't. If the ones China is treating horribly are even slightly moderate, I doubt they'd care.
"The Pashtun tribes are always engaged in private or public war. Every man is a warrior, a politician and a theologian. Every large house is a real feudal fortress. ... Every family cultivates its vendetta; every clan, its feud. ... Nothing is ever forgotten and very few debts are left unpaid."
Winston Churchill - The Story of the Malakand Field Force: An Episode of Frontier War (1898)
Winston Churchill - The Story of the Malakand Field Force: An Episode of Frontier War (1898)
The Afghan problem is insoluble - perhaps the withdrawal could have been handled better, but it probably didn't make too much difference.
Nothing can be done without huge resources and loss of life (on both sides)
Pictures of civilian casualties will be used to sway public opinion - regrettably we have no option but to stay out and stay uninvolved
Nothing can be done without huge resources and loss of life (on both sides)
Pictures of civilian casualties will be used to sway public opinion - regrettably we have no option but to stay out and stay uninvolved
Lincs Lass
Member
- Location
- north lincs
Far too many of our troops came home in boxes or half their limbs missing and what thanks did they get from our glorious government ,,SFA, left to struggle ,sod all help with disabilities ,,broken families,,homeless and suicidal .
We dont ever want get involved with other countries problems ever again
We dont ever want get involved with other countries problems ever again
ollie989898
Member
As mentioned earlier, there is no single unifying belief or value that would unite the people there. Their individual loyalties lie with their family or tribe, there is no single unifying national consciousness or identity. It is not that different in Saudi Arabia.
The Russians didn't fudge around when they went into Afghanistan. They played dirty; they levelled entire villages, they used chemical weapons and air dropped mines, they even bombs disguised as toys. They didn't give a fudge for the populace whatsoever. They still left after a time.
The issue is that unless you are politically stomach the intense cost of a hugely asymmetric conflict, in both financial and human terms, then you cannot really 'win' against such an adversary. When it costs over 100K per hellfire missile to destroy a single pickup truck carrying 4 insurgents, then the cost becomes exorbitant.
Whatever the answer is, unless there is a clear and realistic danger to the peace and security of the UK I cannot see anyone supporting the UK or the West re-entering Afghanistan.
The Russians didn't fudge around when they went into Afghanistan. They played dirty; they levelled entire villages, they used chemical weapons and air dropped mines, they even bombs disguised as toys. They didn't give a fudge for the populace whatsoever. They still left after a time.
The issue is that unless you are politically stomach the intense cost of a hugely asymmetric conflict, in both financial and human terms, then you cannot really 'win' against such an adversary. When it costs over 100K per hellfire missile to destroy a single pickup truck carrying 4 insurgents, then the cost becomes exorbitant.
Whatever the answer is, unless there is a clear and realistic danger to the peace and security of the UK I cannot see anyone supporting the UK or the West re-entering Afghanistan.
Very difficult to know who to believe, Afghan taxi driver in London who’s whole family are still in Afghanistan reckoned the Russians were far better for the actual people of Afghanistan (except the Taliban) than the yanks etc ever were as the Russians built hospitals, schools & roads etc where as the yanks simply built army bases. Not sure 20 years of occupation has achieved very much so not sure what going back would now achieve.
Shouldn’t be forgotten that when the Russians were fighting the Taliban the US were providing the Taliban with all the weapons they needed.
He reckoned the yanks left thousands of new vehicles but took all the keys with them when they left at 4 in the morning.
Shouldn’t be forgotten that when the Russians were fighting the Taliban the US were providing the Taliban with all the weapons they needed.
He reckoned the yanks left thousands of new vehicles but took all the keys with them when they left at 4 in the morning.
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- Location
- People's Republic of South Yorkshire
What i don't get is gov troops never seem upto the job.
Been trained by the west.
Plenty of kit, yet taliban take over city's in days.
Not huge losses or damage.
But pull back or surrender....
Been trained by the west.
Plenty of kit, yet taliban take over city's in days.
Not huge losses or damage.
But pull back or surrender....
Swarfmonkey
Member
- Location
- Hampshire
Break out the buckets of instant sunshine and turn the whole fecking country into glass.
Every square metre of it.
I'd rather spend a week stuck in a lift with Chris Packham, Dominic Dyer, Guy Shrubsole, and George Monbiot than see that sodding country ever again.
Every square metre of it.
I'd rather spend a week stuck in a lift with Chris Packham, Dominic Dyer, Guy Shrubsole, and George Monbiot than see that sodding country ever again.
Tragedy is that folk like Jim Davidson who get involved in helping these heroes are often branded as ............
Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
Most people don't seem to realise why we really went into Afghanistan and Iraq, and it wasn't because of oil, drugs or Islamo-terrorism... 
For the record: I was in the Gulf but I haven't served in Afghanistan. I do know many people who have served there, and some killed there, and the views and experiences of those whose opinions I respect have certainly influenced my own thoughts.
You need to brush up on your history Bwana.
Done once, properly, by Alexander; all subsequent 'occupiers' have been time-wasting. Far better to return to the policy during the Raj, i.e. heavily enforced containment.
For the record: I was in the Gulf but I haven't served in Afghanistan. I do know many people who have served there, and some killed there, and the views and experiences of those whose opinions I respect have certainly influenced my own thoughts.
- Location
- Fife
Even he wasn't that successful
- Location
- Limousin, France
The movie "Hyena Road" about troops in Afghanistan mentions the legend, also mentioned by Steven Pressfield, that Alexander sent Afghanistan soil to his mother.
“Alexander’s mother Olympias wrote him a letter once,” the officer tells me, “getting on his case for taking so long to knock off these primitive, poverty-stricken Afghans. So Alexander captured three tribal chiefs and sent them back to Macedonia, each one carrying an offering of soil from his own tribal homeland; they were supposed to deliver these tokens to Olympias as a gift from her son. But waiting outside the queen’s palace door, the three chiefs got into a fight and killed one another. Alexander’s Mom wrote back: ‘Now I understand, my son.’”
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Leave be.
Retrain armed forces to mend roads.
Spend money on libraries rather than tanks.
Retrain armed forces to mend roads.
Spend money on libraries rather than tanks.
- Location
- LINCOLNSHIRE/KENYA
You can go back every week give them a good kicking then go home. Problem is as soon as you leave they stick two fingers up and go back to doing what they were doing before. Intervention in Iraq and Syria hasn’t improved many peoples lives.
The way Peckham seems to turn up on every tv channel these days, you might want to reconsider the Afghanistan option!
Paddington
Member
- Location
- Soggy Shropshire
Peckham ?