Time to go back in to Afghanistan

[TechWise]

Even if they did have the personnel to fly them, they wouldn't be flying for long. Even the older airframes are well beyond what Terry can maintain. Wouldn't put it past them to flog them off though, the Iranians in particular are always after kit.

The Taliban tend to prefer the low-tech way of doing things - the AK, the RPG, and the DShK. Any idiot can use them, and maintain them.

I've been reading comments from a number of veterans saying that the Afghan airforce was being maintained entirely by US contractors (for a healthy profit) and they pulled out alongside the military in the full knowledge that the Afghan airforce would be grounded the minute they left. Also read an anecdote that when a taliban bullet flew overhead, the ANA started fleeing an entire FOB and were being grabbed by their vests and thrown back into their foxholes and told to shoot back by the Latvian NCOs training them. It seems the entire western world knew they were totally inept a decade ago.

I'm not usually one for conspiracies, but the more I read the more I feel the whole thing was orchestrated for the benefit of the US military industrial complex and never had any hope of success.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Some of the aviation mechs had done some OMLT work with the ANA.

That gig must have been like trying to teach a monkey about quantum mechanics...

The local lads we had with us on the second tour were fairly squared away (for the ANA). They at least knew what a cleaning kit was for

 

[Swarfmonkey]

the more I read the more I feel the whole thing was orchestrated for the benefit of the US military industrial complex and never had any hope of success.

Companies like KBR, Triple Canopy, and DynCorp certainly did very well out the whole GWOT thing.

 

[wanton dwarf]

You make it sound like 'Little House on the Prairie' No westerners would ever set foot in Afghanistan to start a new life, unless they were mad or had a death wish.

The immigrants to the USA killed off the natives and took their lands. They then proceeded to have a civil war. They currently are doing a good job of having a second civil war.

That's exactly why I said what I did .. fight fire with fire.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I'm not usually one for conspiracies, but the more I read the more I feel the whole thing was orchestrated for the benefit of the US military industrial complex and never had any hope of success.

It was obvious from day 1 the occupation would fail because there are no willing fighters against extremism in Afghanistan or in Pakistan.

I think @Danllan probably hit the nail on the head - it was a warning to Iran, Saudi and Pakistan. But politics has moved on from that era and the USA is destroying itself.

 

[jendan]

Problem is that 9/11 was a result of letting them get on with it. I have no more of a solution than any other arm chair general, but I think it needs more than just the US and other western democracies to sort this. It may be a matter of holding our noses and inviting/compelling the Chinese and Russians to cooperate in a massive peace keeping force, as in reality it is in all our interests to prevent Afghanistan becoming a terrorist haven again.

Jon Sopel just been on,and saying Biden got it completely wrong over the withdrawal despite being warned that the Afghan army would just capitulate. Not as bad as Saigon,but not far off.

 

[Stuart J]

Deeply disappointed in Biden over this.
Not sure what the alternative would have been, but there must have been a better way.

 

[robs1]

I wonder what people would have said if trump had done the same, have seen several people say maybe he wasnt as bad after all

 

[Danllan]

Jon Sopel just been on,and saying Biden got it completely wrong over the withdrawal despite being warned that the Afghan army would just capitulate. Not as bad as Saigon,but not far off.

I don't know anyone - who has judgement I trust - that has had any faith at all in the Afghan Gov't troops. I've heard first hand from people who have trained, worked with them and commanded them, and the story has been the same every time, although the words have differed...

They were uniformly hard to train, harder to discipline and always unreliable; of course there are exceptions, but one chap - now of field rank - has said that from his nearly 20 years experience in and out of Afghanistan, he'd be surprised if all told they could muster even a brigade of troops who could be relied upon. For laymen, that means less than 5000 men, out of something like 200,000 in their security forces - but those 5000 aren't in a single brigade, being scattered everywhere, so there isn't any single unit* that had a hope of remaining coherent.

The only people in the ASF I haven't heard bad things about have been the interpreters ('terps'), who are / were widely respected and liked.

I guess nobody on here will accuse me of being a fan of President Biden, but what is happening was inevitable when the decision was made to take out Western troops. Regardless of whether it had been staggered, done man by man, all out in one go or what have you, once the Taliban saw there was no opposition to them it was endex for the Afghan Gov't, and everybody involved on all sides knew this from day one.



* Maybe a couple of very small SF units, but they probably gapped it with and as bodyguards to the president.

 

[DENNING]

I wonder what people would have said if trump had done the same, have seen several people say maybe he wasnt as bad after all

The USA is so partisan each side would just have reversed what they are saying.

 

[Stuart J]

I don't know anyone - who has judgement I trust - that has had any faith at all in the Afghan Gov't troops. I've heard first hand from people who have trained, worked with them and commanded them, and the story has been the same every time, although the words have differed...

They were uniformly hard to train, harder to discipline and always unreliable; of course there are exceptions, but one chap - now of field rank - has said that from his nearly 20 years experience in and out of Afghanistan, he'd be surprised if all told they could muster even a brigade of troops who could be relied upon. For laymen, that means less than 5000 men, out of something like 200,000 in their security forces - but those 5000 aren't in a single brigade, being scattered everywhere, so there isn't any single unit* that had a hope of remaining coherent.

The only people in the ASF I haven't heard bad things about have been the interpreters ('terps'), who are / were widely respected and liked.

I guess nobody on here will accuse me of being a fan of President Biden, but what is happening was inevitable when the decision was made to take out Western troops. Regardless of whether it had been staggered, done man by man, all out in one go or what have you, once the Taliban saw there was no opposition to them it was endex for the Afghan Gov't, and everybody involved on all sides knew this from day one.



* Maybe a couple of very small SF units, but they probably gapped it with and as bodyguards to the president.

I'd agree with that.
Possibly massive lack of leadership within the Afghan army too. Through incompetance and corruption.

 

[bluegreen]

The Biden administration is in collapse, this withdrawal has been an unmitigated disaster and it will be a miracle if all US citizens get out before the Taliban takeover is complete.............A Constitutional Convention beckons.

 

[Pasty]

The Biden administration is in collapse, this withdrawal has been an unmitigated disaster and it will be a miracle if all US citizens get out before the Taliban takeover is complete.............A Constitutional Convention beckons.

At least they will have Ms Harris. Probably the least popular person in the US at the moment. But hey, getting a black wimmin in there was the whole idea all along wasn't it? By the way I am not a racist and very fond of women. It's just too cynical and predictable.

 

[Oldmacdonald]

The Biden administration is in collapse, this withdrawal has been an unmitigated disaster and it will be a miracle if all US citizens get out before the Taliban takeover is complete.............A Constitutional Convention beckons.

The withdrawal was Trumps idea though? Biden just carried it out. Just not very well.

 

[Danllan]

The withdrawal was Trumps idea though? Biden just carried it out. Just not very well.

That's no get-out; if you are President, and you think an idea is crap, you just don't do it.

But, again, can anyone explain how there could have been a different result in the end?

 

[Oldmacdonald]

That's no get-out; if you are President, and you think an idea is crap, you just don't do it.

But, again, can anyone explain how there could have been a different result in the end?

Agree completely. I was just pointing it out to the trumpers that are insinuating withdrawal was a bad idea altogether.

The result would have been the same regardless, albeit with maybe more time for those that needed to leave to do so.

 

[toquark]

Well I for one hope that China are involved in Afganistan. Deeply involved.

That country has been the ruination of many empires.

 

[Highland Mule]

Agree completely. I was just pointing it out to the trumpers that are insinuating withdrawal was a bad idea altogether.

The result would have been the same regardless, albeit with maybe more time for those that needed to leave to do so.

Agreed. And I understand that Trump had set a May 1st deadline, so Biden’s administration had actually slowed things down as it was.

Damned of they do and damned if they don’t. I have no idea what the right thing would be, but seems that this isn’t it.

 

[Pasty]

If the USSR nor the USA cannot sort it I think it's best left alone.

 

[Muck Spreader]

The immigrants to the USA killed off the natives and took their lands. They then proceeded to have a civil war. They currently are doing a good job of having a second civil war.

That's exactly why I said what I did .. fight fire with fire.

Well, it is a series of facts I can't dispute. And it would make a great new TV series; 'A new life in Afghanistan'.