Times: 'Beef report was biased, admits BBC' - sanctions for BBC and Bonnin?

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
I am confused as to what the problem is.
TV programmes are saying that cows are responsible for climate change.
The NFU are saying that cows are responsible for climate change.
https://www.countrysideonline.co.uk...xcei2lsiwgylpwpx62cba9w#.X3nouC4R3lc.facebook
Where is the conflict ?
Generally a good article Delilah but ever so slightly muddled when it seems to advocate reducing methane emissions having almost made the point that a stable livestock herd has zero impact on climate warming.

What I simply can't fathom about the NFU's stance is that I have never once seen or heard them point to the fact that 95% of carbon emissions in the UK are from sources other than livestock, and that maybe we should be concentrating on that 95% and not the 5% which aren't a problem in the first place.
 

yellowbelly

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
N.Lincs
95% of carbon emissions in the UK are from sources other than livestock, and that maybe we should be concentrating on that 95% and not the 5% which aren't a problem in the first place.
That's what I've always been led to believe - I always quote this graphic when trying to put our case over to 'farming bashers'....
Screenshot (43).png

.....I know it says our emissions are 10% and you're quoting 5% but, for all intents and purposes, it gives a general picture of where we stand.

From the logo at the bottom, it was originally put out by the NFU ad I usually get, "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?"

My point is, because there's been that much stuff bandied about (so that a simpleton like me is totally bamboozled with which to believe) is there one simple source of research (by an impartial organisation) that has produced a similar graphic that can be used in the way I use the one produced by the NFU?

I don't want a massive 100 page document (no good when debating with Joe Bloggs in the pub), just a simple graphic that's attributed to a credible independent organisation.
 

delilah

Member
Generally a good article

It's an absolutely awful article. It repeatedly says that cows are damaging the planet.
When Mo Farah does his Quorn advert, does he say "By the way kids, your body isn't remotely designed to run on this sh!t, and producing it consumes a huge amount of energy and resources".
So long as the best the NFU can come up with is 'cows are bad for the planet, but British cows aren't as bad as foreign cows' then it is completely pointless moaning about TV programmes.

It is entirely possible to write a short, easily understood piece, digestable by the general public, that portrays cows as being absolutely crucial to a stable climate. All of the raw material has repeatedly been posted by folks on here. Why can't the NFU deliver such a positive message ?
 
Last edited:

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
That's what I've always been led to believe - I always quote this graphic when trying to put our case over to 'farming bashers'....
View attachment 914845
.....I know it says our emissions are 10% and you're quoting 5% but, for all intents and purposes, it gives a general picture of where we stand.

From the logo at the bottom, it was originally put out by the NFU ad I usually get, "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?"

My point is, because there's been that much stuff bandied about (so that a simpleton like me is totally bamboozled with which to believe) is there one simple source of research (by an impartial organisation) that has produced a similar graphic that can be used in the way I use the one produced by the NFU?

I don't want a massive 100 page document (no good when debating with Joe Bloggs in the pub), just a simple graphic that's attributed to a credible independent organisation.
I said 5% as that's what the NFU state but I'm sure govt figures say 4.5% but that's splitting hairs. The 10% you're quoting is for all of UK farming, not just livestock. We're defending livestock here. We could go on the attack and talk about NO2 which the vegans conveniently ignore but I see no reason to split farmers up, we should all be fighting the utter bollox together.

A while ago I heard the Chris Kresser debunking of the Gamechangers podcast on Joe Rogan. He quoted a US university had done the calculations on what would happen to emissions in a vegan nirvana. US livestock emissions are 3.5% of their total, if all livestock production ended in the US tomorrow then they'd save a grand total of 1.5%. So sod all. And that was without going into the environmental catastrophy that would ensue. I made a note of the study at the time but it seems to have disappeared from my phone sadly soz. Technology's great isn't it?
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
It's an absolutely awful article. It repeatedly says that cows are damaging the planet.
When Mo Farah does his Quorn advert, does he say "By the way kids, your body isn't remotely designed to run on this sh!t, and producing it consumes a huge amount of energy and resources".
So long as the best the NFU can come up with is 'cows are bad for the planet, but British cows aren't as bad as foreign cows' then it is completely pointless moaning about TV programmes.

It is entirely possible to write a short, easily understood piece, digestable by the general public, that portrays cows as being absolutely crucial to a stable climate. All of the raw material has repeatedly been posted by folks on here. Why can't the NFU deliver such a positive message ?
As I said, generally a good article apart from the bit about methane, which the author has got wrong. There's nothing wrong with the rest of it. FWIW I didn't realise it was the NFU website as I never look on there for info. Just out of interest, we know the NFU don't understand methane, why did you post that link? I thought this thread was about Liz Bonnin's propaganda film btw.
 

delilah

Member
As I said, generally a good article apart from the bit about methane, which the author has got wrong. There's nothing wrong with the rest of it. FWIW I didn't realise it was the NFU website as I never look on there for info. Just out of interest, we know the NFU don't understand methane, why did you post that link? I thought this thread was about Liz Bonnin's propaganda film btw.

Posted because it says that Britain's cows are responsible for climate change. How can we criticise Liz Bonnin when we and her are giving the same message ?
I don't understand the fixation with saying that UK agriculture is responsible for x% of greenhouse gas emissions, or that cows are responsible for y% of methane.
We have a fantastic story to tell, about permanent pasture being the most stable, long term carbon store there is. We should tell our story on our terms, not continually be reactive to whatever we are attacked with.
 

Raider112

Member
That's what I've always been led to believe - I always quote this graphic when trying to put our case over to 'farming bashers'....
View attachment 914845
.....I know it says our emissions are 10% and you're quoting 5% but, for all intents and purposes, it gives a general picture of where we stand.

From the logo at the bottom, it was originally put out by the NFU ad I usually get, "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?"

My point is, because there's been that much stuff bandied about (so that a simpleton like me is totally bamboozled with which to believe) is there one simple source of research (by an impartial organisation) that has produced a similar graphic that can be used in the way I use the one produced by the NFU?

I don't want a massive 100 page document (no good when debating with Joe Bloggs in the pub), just a simple graphic that's attributed to a credible independent organisation.
This has the NFU logo on the bottom but it is from official Government figures and the EU is pretty much in line so they are accurate.
As pointed out the 10% is for the whole of Ag. livestock is around half of that with most of it obviously cattle.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Posted because it says that Britain's cows are responsible for climate change. How can we criticise Liz Bonnin when we and her are giving the same message ?
I don't understand the fixation with saying that UK agriculture is responsible for x% of greenhouse gas emissions, or that cows are responsible for y% of methane.
We have a fantastic story to tell, about permanent pasture being the most stable, long term carbon store there is. We should tell our story on our terms, not continually be reactive to whatever we are attacked with.
Does it state that cows are responsible for climate change? Did you watch the programme and hear the fantasy figures Bonnin was throwing about? FWIW I don't think the NFU are shouting about how many emissions we produce, just that they are having to say something and only have accurate figures to fall back on, because they don't have the wit to explain why methane from livestock simply isn't a problem. The main problem here is that they just aren't making any case to explain what is reasonably basic science. I really don't think the NFU understand it. Granted, basic science is beyond the understanding of some of our population but not all, and we should therefore engage them in the actual facts rather than the soundbite "facts". Also the article you posted does state that pasture sequesters carbon. I'm not having a go btw, I'm as frustrated as you, but the NFU clearly aren't up to the job required. But they did achieve a tiny victory here, however insignificant.
 

delilah

Member
Does it state that cows are responsible for climate change?

Opening para:
According to the Government’s Committee on Climate Change, greenhouse gas emissions from UK beef are about half the global average
It's on the nfu website, aimed at the public, attention span 30 seconds. The opening statement should be:
If you want to save the planet, eat red meat.
And then tell our story. Not quote a load of Govt statistics to then try and counter.
As said before, this lady shows us how to run a campaign.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...ommunications-team.328028/page-6#post-7168444
 

RobJC

Member
That's what I've always been led to believe - I always quote this graphic when trying to put our case over to 'farming bashers'....
View attachment 914845
.....I know it says our emissions are 10% and you're quoting 5% but, for all intents and purposes, it gives a general picture of where we stand.

From the logo at the bottom, it was originally put out by the NFU ad I usually get, "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?"

My point is, because there's been that much stuff bandied about (so that a simpleton like me is totally bamboozled with which to believe) is there one simple source of research (by an impartial organisation) that has produced a similar graphic that can be used in the way I use the one produced by the NFU?

I don't want a massive 100 page document (no good when debating with Joe Bloggs in the pub), just a simple graphic that's attributed to a credible independent organisation.

All EU stats:

Figure_1_Contribution_of_agriculture_to_total_GHG_emissions_%28%25%29%2C_EU-28%2C_2015.png

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Figure_1_Contribution_of_agriculture_to_total_GHG_emissions_(%),_EU-28,_2015.png

Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_IPCC_source_sector%2C_EU-27%2C_2018.png

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...ssions_by_IPCC_source_sector,_EU-27,_2018.png

Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_economic_activity_according_to_the_NACE_classification%2C_EU-27%2C_2018.png

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...g_to_the_NACE_classification,_EU-27,_2018.png


All sorts of useful data charts here: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...main_breakdowns_by_source_and_general_drivers
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Opening para:
According to the Government’s Committee on Climate Change, greenhouse gas emissions from UK beef are about half the global average
It's on the nfu website, aimed at the public, attention span 30 seconds. The opening statement should be:
If you want to save the planet, eat red meat.
And then tell our story. Not quote a load of Govt statistics to then try and counter.
As said before, this lady shows us how to run a campaign.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...ommunications-team.328028/page-6#post-7168444
I get what you're saying, I really do, but stating that UK livestock sector is responsible for 5% of UK emissions is not the same as "Britain's cows are responsible for climate change". Again though, two crucial points:
1. Methane from livestock is part of eons-old environmental cycling. There is no negative aspect to it.
2. 95% of emissions are from human activities other than humans eating meat. Including vegan crops.
 

delilah

Member
I get what you're saying, I really do, but stating that UK livestock sector is responsible for 5% of UK emissions is not the same as "Britain's cows are responsible for climate change". Again though, two crucial points:
1. Methane from livestock is part of eons-old environmental cycling. There is no negative aspect to it.
2. 95% of emissions are from human activities other than humans eating meat. Including vegan crops.

Imagine being the teacher at an inner city school. Stressed out, got 10 minutes to prep a lesson on farming and the environment. You find that link on the NFU website. Your head is already full of 'cows are destroying the planet' because that's what the telly has told you.
We have one pitch at changing her mind, at making her do a lesson plan that at least challenges the kids to look for a counter argument. Do we open with 'uk livestock is responsible for 5% of uk greenhouse gas emissions', or do we open with 'the most environment friendly land use in Britain is pastureland, which only exists because it is grazed by cows' ?
We should stay well away from any xyz% game. We all know its bollox and anyone can make the numbers match their argument. We need to tell the story in words that Jo Public understands.
 

Old Boar

Member
Location
West Wales
There is a very simple answer to this. The BBC should be made to make a programme showing the facts and that British farming is not harmful. No little "oops" in a paper that the majority of people do not read.

So I challenge you, BBC, show the truth. Does not fit your agenda? Tough! We pay for your existance. Tell the truth, not what you want to be the truth.
 

yellowbelly

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
N.Lincs
There is a very simple answer to this. The BBC should be made to make a programme showing the facts and that British farming is not harmful. No little "oops" in a paper that the majority of people do not read.

So I challenge you, BBC, show the truth. Does not fit your agenda? Tough! We pay for your existance. Tell the truth, not what you want to be the truth.
Totally agree with you - but don't hold your breath :(
 

delilah

Member
There is a very simple answer to this. The BBC should be made to make a programme showing the facts and that British farming is not harmful. No little "oops" in a paper that the majority of people do not read.

So I challenge you, BBC, show the truth. Does not fit your agenda? Tough! We pay for your existance. Tell the truth, not what you want to be the truth.

Have we asked them to do so ?
Everyone criticises Animal Rebellion but farming has an awful lot to learn from them. They will have made positive links with many media people, constantly feeding them story ideas etc. All I ever read from our side is how the NFU have lodged a complaint or threatened legal action. You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Have we asked them to do so ?
Everyone criticises Animal Rebellion but farming has an awful lot to learn from them. They will have made positive links with many media people, constantly feeding them story ideas etc. All I ever read from our side is how the NFU have lodged a complaint or threatened legal action. You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.
How many good news stories do you read in the news? Bad scary news, true or not, sells.

Jamie Oliver is on board on standards.

Remember how all these "celebrities" are on this diet or that diet what ever happened to the Atkins diet?

Get involved yourself, speak to the local officeholders.
 

redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
Imagine being the teacher at an inner city school. Stressed out, got 10 minutes to prep a lesson on farming and the environment. You find that link on the NFU website. Your head is already full of 'cows are destroying the planet' because that's what the telly has told you.
We have one pitch at changing her mind, at making her do a lesson plan that at least challenges the kids to look for a counter argument. Do we open with 'uk livestock is responsible for 5% of uk greenhouse gas emissions', or do we open with 'the most environment friendly land use in Britain is pastureland, which only exists because it is grazed by cows' ?
We should stay well away from any xyz% game. We all know its bollox and anyone can make the numbers match their argument. We need to tell the story in words that Jo Public understands.
Surely the main argument should be that ultimately cows are recycling carbon in the form of methane, while the rest of the world is digging it out of the ground and burning something that has locked carbon away for millions of years!
Then on top of that, if there's no cows then there's not much need of grass so all that permanent pasture that's storing carbon is going to be released to grow something that vegans can eat thinking that they're saving the world!

Insane.
 

delilah

Member
if there's no cows then there's not much need of grass so all that permanent pasture that's storing carbon is going to be released to grow something that vegans can eat thinking that they're saving the world!

That is a TV programme begging to be made. As asked, have we approached anyone to make it ?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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