Tine Direct Drills

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Haven't done it with sunflowers but have been into big multi species bonnet high covers with the Claydon , leading disc makes all the difference. I do conceed the disc drill will move alot less n leave the armour alot more intact .
if your using a Claydon with a leading disc then I wouldn’t really call it a tine drill any longer

when I say a tine can’t cope with big trash I mean a drill that just has tines
 

Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
I like the look of the Claydon and still waiting to see one working but they have been in touch unlike most of the others.i understand the Claydon front tine leaves a slot or loosened ground to aid drainage and leave loose ground for roots to easily penetrate.i think with a disc on the front would be perfect enabling drilling in any or most conditions.unfortuantly on a mounted drill this would add weight and may move weight further back.ive got a few bits like picture which is wild bird seed mix full of most things.even though it would be regularly drilled in to that type of vegetation im imagining cover crops could be equally hard to drill into and I could not see a tine drill working in that.a disc drill woukd obviously work ok in that but be been told by agronomists that some of our heavy land would not suit disc drills and I’d be concerned drilling after tracked combine and grain trailers have sunk in during harvest,not allways I admit but can’t have differant machine for differant situations.what a dilemma
Nick...View attachment 858767
I've drilled into worse than that with my Claydon. Topped and sometimes lightly diced first though. All models are available as trailed. @Rob Holmes modified his from mounted to trailed. My biggest grumble with Claydon is the lack of floating coulters for better seed depth control but ruts can be disced out to level the ground up first. With due respect to your agronomists, I'd talk to one who has other no tilling clients, not ones without who don't want the extra hassle of you risking crop yields by changing your system. @Daniel uses his Claydon after beet & spuds when conditions are better. My only other worry with a Claydon is on deeply worked ground - mine sinks in as depth control for a heavy drill is only on few skinny wheels designed to run on unmoved stubble.
 

Shutesy

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Location
Stansted
I like the look of the Claydon and still waiting to see one working but they have been in touch unlike most of the others.i understand the Claydon front tine leaves a slot or loosened ground to aid drainage and leave loose ground for roots to easily penetrate.i think with a disc on the front would be perfect enabling drilling in any or most conditions.unfortuantly on a mounted drill this would add weight and may move weight further back.ive got a few bits like picture which is wild bird seed mix full of most things.even though it would be regularly drilled in to that type of vegetation im imagining cover crops could be equally hard to drill into and I could not see a tine drill working in that.a disc drill woukd obviously work ok in that but be been told by agronomists that some of our heavy land would not suit disc drills and I’d be concerned drilling after tracked combine and grain trailers have sunk in during harvest,not allways I admit but can’t have differant machine for differant situations.what a dilemma
Nick...View attachment 858767
A wild bird seed mix thats a few years old, gone woody and fallen over in a tangled mess is a slightly different kettle of fish to drill into than a leafy 6 month old cover crop, you could exclude things like Mustard from your cover crop mix to avoid long woody stems. I've never been able to grow cover crops like Clive that are bonnet high, most of the time they get to about knee high and this year hardly ankle high for most people from what I've heard. My DTS has a leading disc and a tine, has never been defeated by a cover crop yet, stupidly long stubble (combine driver :rolleyes:) or lodged cereals or leftover straw swaths maybe. You need to decide if you want to go strip-till or no-till, they require different management decisions. Your set of Proforge discs would help you get into strip-till for a few years, it doesn't have to be religiously direct into stubble all the time, a light discing can sometimes help in certain situations.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
The tine is still doing the seed placement, not the disc. Plenty of no till tine drills with leading discs.
i agree but a tine drill with a disc opener is a very different prospect in a big cover crop than a drill with just a tine

if you have a lot of cover you have to cut it or you have a rake not a drill !
 
This is my dilemma. I want to move from a Claydon to no till but the Claydon has no seed depth control which is critical with no tilth. I've yet to come across a single person who is using a tine drill to sow cash crops into chopped barley straw regularly. I tried it with the leading tine on the Claydon and it nearly broke us waiting for the hottest weather just so it would flow through the drill. All the tine drill users have to bale the straw first.

You've still got hair pinning worries with a disc drill but row cleaners have reduced this problem a fair bit.
I would bet good money if you swapped the tine for a disc on the claydon it would flow a lot better, I'm going to be growing 60ha a year of wheat after spring barley and will be ordering discs before this Autumn.

I only have 350ha of arable and would love a disc drill alongside the Claydon, but I can't afford one so for the time being I will swap between leading tine/disc as conditions allow. Will also use 5" shares with the disc.

Three years in with the Claydon the individual coulter depth control no longer seems a problem as the fields are becoming very level. (Year one and two were a problem due to years of errr poor ploughing!)
 
I
I like the look of the Claydon and still waiting to see one working but they have been in touch unlike most of the others.i understand the Claydon front tine leaves a slot or loosened ground to aid drainage and leave loose ground for roots to easily penetrate.i think with a disc on the front would be perfect enabling drilling in any or most conditions.unfortuantly on a mounted drill this would add weight and may move weight further back.ive got a few bits like picture which is wild bird seed mix full of most things.even though it would be regularly drilled in to that type of vegetation im imagining cover crops could be equally hard to drill into and I could not see a tine drill working in that.a disc drill woukd obviously work ok in that but be been told by agronomists that some of our heavy land would not suit disc drills and I’d be concerned drilling after tracked combine and grain trailers have sunk in during harvest,not allways I admit but can’t have differant machine for differant situations.what a dilemma
Nick...View attachment 858767
if you are ever down near Luton and want to see a Claydon drilled farm drop me a line.
 

Suddy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Durham
The Sabre tine is heavy and has no packer wheel, it also has poor trash flow I'm reliably informed.
As @Clive says an Horsch CO is an excellent introductory drill (cheap) when coupled with some retrofit points such as Dutch, Borgault or JJ Metcalfe. Loads of options out there.

Dale is a good drill and have independent vertical depth control which neither the Sabre tine or the Horsch have.

Your HP will cope easily with a 4 or 6m Horsch on narrow tines.

A Claydon is a strip-till drill, it moves far too much soil if moving to a genuine CA system.
Well said sir
 

Warnesworth

Member
Location
Chipping Norton
I still fail to see how a tine based drill like a dale,Claydon or even a modified horsch mentioned about coukd work in a lot of trash.ive got some wild bird mix areas that are a mass of vegetation about 2ft high and some flattened and none of the above woukd work without blocking.i saw one of the above at cereals demo site working in mustard cover and it was blocking continually to the extent a man i was standing next too said his vaddy rapid would work better than that.im sure they are ok on stubble but must work everywhere.do any of the above fit a disc that would cure these problems.i coukd not see these drills working in conditions like @Clive has posted his new horsch working in.
Nick...
The tine drill probably won’t cope with this sort of trash, this is where you need a disc drill.
When I say trash I am really referring to chopped straw be it wheat, barley, oats etc.
 

ajd132

Member
Location
Suffolk
This is my dilemma. I want to move from a Claydon to no till but the Claydon has no seed depth control which is critical with no tilth. I've yet to come across a single person who is using a tine drill to sow cash crops into chopped barley straw regularly. I tried it with the leading tine on the Claydon and it nearly broke us waiting for the hottest weather just so it would flow through the drill. All the tine drill users have to bale the straw first.

You've still got hair pinning worries with a disc drill but row cleaners have reduced this problem a fair bit.
I am getting on okay drilling into chopped spring and winter barley straw with sprinter
 

clbarclay

Member
Location
Worcestershire
A tine drill can cope with a lot of trash and tall covers.... provided it has sufficient clearance around the tines.

Leading discs on a tine drill can be of limited advantage. I tried a simtech once and in the conditions it just could not cut through tough stems, the ground underneath wasn't firm enough to cut them against. Curiously, it was very close to blocking up around the first two banks of tines, but the third bank was set in between the rear roller rings and it never built up around them. A friend rated the Amazone Primera highly because the wheel just behind each tine would just keep pulling any trash past the tine if it built up.
 

ajd132

Member
Location
Suffolk
Even in brackled crops where you've had to cut lower?
No admittedly I havnt tried it in a real messy spring barley crop yet. The only variety we have had Brackle bad is prolong which we’ve dropped.
drilling in between last years rows using rtk makes a huge difference.
 

Rihards

Member
Location
Latvia
I would like to say that question about barley is more about straw management from my experience. If I know that after barley will folow winter cereals, I am tended to drill early barley variety with 6 rows in ears, it grows to harvest aprox in 85 days and I have even time to go with straw rake after combine and wait for glifo spray before WW. This barley is wery easy to chop like a dust... yes, it yielded aprox 1.5tha less than more intensive for example Quench with traditional 2 row in ears, but after this variety I have significant more chance to succesfuly establish next crop in autumn. check the difference in pictures.
 

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Rihards

Member
Location
Latvia
in August 2019 I visit James & Tom at Dale drills farm and my aim was to see how perform 12mm narrow opener in choped barley drilling OSR. I was more than surprised with results, wery even depth control and wery good tilth and smooth finish in clay soil. and now day after lamma I had oportunity to visit again this fields. fantastic results, even for year like this in UK conditions and in headland turn field side.
 

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Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
What happened to the Vaderstad seedhawk tine drill?
Vaderstad stopped marketing them over here because they short sightedly preferred to try and sell you a Topdown, Carrier and Rapid drill instead. They stopped marketing the Spirit Strip Till drill too. At least Michael Horsch had more vision!

The Seed Hawk openers are very good - Dale used to fit them until Vaderstad bought the Seed Hawk business and started selling them themselves. Dale developed their own version of the Seed Hawk opener.
 

rhsl

New Member
Vaderstad stopped marketing them over here because they short sightedly preferred to try and sell you a Topdown, Carrier and Rapid drill instead. They stopped marketing the Spirit Strip Till drill too. At least Michael Horsch had more vision!

The Seed Hawk openers are very good - Dale used to fit them until Vaderstad bought the Seed Hawk business and started selling them themselves. Dale developed their own version of the Seed Hawk opener.
Thanks, i thought they looked quite a good option when they came out.
 

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138: Special episode: Covid-19 impact on the Potato sector

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138: Special episode: Covid-19 impact on the Potato sector

Written by AHDB

In this special issue of the Potatoes Podcast we will discuss the impact of Coronavirus on the Potato Markets. A fresh update on how Covid-19 has resulted in an increased demand on the retail market, while the chipping market has suffered the hardest hit. The uncertainty of the current situation will force businesses to...
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