To drill OSR or not

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Very little branching even in crops that look decent from the road. I don't like that I can see soil through the canopy. This is at least a crop but needs to be given costs to grow will be £460 an acre. Lots of early pod abortion, presumably from frost. Aquilla drilled 16th August.

Drilled 730ac. Will combine 480ac. Maybe 50ac of that will be poor. The rest looks like this. If you factor in seed, sprays etc on the lost crops then the break even yield is higher still. Very high profit potential but it has to go right.
 

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Flintstone

Member
Location
Berkshire
@Flintstone ,while flying have you seen many other farmers ripping up their OSR,this spring. Especially that,that looked well and then went down hill as you said yours did?

Yes, lots. That’s the thing about the effect of the larvae. A crop that looks good coming out winter might well not get above 6 inches tall, and I’ve seen that all over the place.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I’ve always thought it better to remove the straw before rape as the last few years found the csfb hiding up the chopped bits of stem esp in the heat of the day?
But got me thinking is chopping better....?
Cheers dh

The decaying straw will lock up N and be toxic to the growing plants as well as providing habitat for pests.

There is quite a good reason Autocasting fell out of favour. Every field had at least one big hole in it for no apparent reason, you got long vulnerable hypocotyls in the osr plants and it never yielded any better than anything else.
 
It is a shame because it is a useful crop and can make good money but the spend some farmers have to chase to get it there would frighten me to death.

If beans can be grown sensibly and with a more careful spend, I'd be keener, particularly winters which have the option of kerb/crawler.

If you can hitch up with a livestock farmer and grow grass or maize you might be on to something.
 
Has anybody tried broadcasting [undressed] rapeseed into a standing spring barley (or wheat) crop in very early august, then combining with a high stubble and chopping straw over what should be by then 1 or 2 leaf OSR plants.
The advantages I can see are that the CSFB don't know the OSR is there and its cheap.
The disadvantages are that you will probably see the combine wheelings, you wouldn't want to bale the straw, headlands might get a bit trampled, and you would probably need a contractor to apply the seed.
Might be worth a go.

EDIT: I am of course assuming there is some moisture by then.
Did this instead of auto cast
I found if you went too early the slugs had it all before you could get slug pellets on slug pellets with the seed end up in the grain tank so a no no

I have this option available and will use it if we are harvesting later than the 15 August
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
The decaying straw will lock up N and be toxic to the growing plants as well as providing habitat for pests.

There is quite a good reason Autocasting fell out of favour. Every field had at least one big hole in it for no apparent reason, you got long vulnerable hypocotyls in the osr plants and it never yielded any better than anything else.

I'll balance this up. There's a lot going for Autocasting or broadcasting into the standing crop;
  • Cheap
  • The ultimate in moisture conservation. No sunlight hitting the soil surface so less evaporation. The second best time to establish seed after harvest is immediately behind the combine
  • Moist microclimate near the seed especially with chopped straw on top.
  • Early establishment
  • Cheap
  • No loss of soil biology by cultivation
  • You get to have another go if this fails as you've got plenty of time
  • A long stubble helps pigeon control
  • The wheelings don't matter because the plants alongside them will branch out and fill the space.
  • Less weeds germinating because you haven't disturbed the soil. Those that do come will be shallow rooted so will be more prone to a good kill by residuals like Kerb. You've still got post em herbicide choices like Belkar, Astrokerb, Shield and Galera, or Clearfield if you have a suitable variety
  • Cheap
 
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Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I’m with the above.

Rape is history, and I’ve seen some of my crops come out of winter this year looking great, that I’ve had to kill in the last fortnight due to the stem FB larvae.

My whole rotation is changing, rather than just saying ‘what do I replace rape with’.

Good luck to the growers in future. Unless you’ve got some magic pill, you’ll get caught out sooner or later

Feeling a bit low about the whole job right now. There’s so much working against us, and very little to look forward to.

When you mix a cauldron of BREXIT, BPS expiry, neonic farcical rule changes, upcoming glyphosate ban, grain price pressures and Natural England delaying payments by 9 months, one wonders why we bother.

I’m at my wits end.

You have PM.
 
I'll balance this up. There's a lot going for Autocasting or broadcasting into the standing crop;
  • Cheap
  • The ultimate in moisture conservation. No sunlight hitting the soil surface so less evaporation. The second best time to establish seed after harvest is immediately behind the combine
  • Moist microclimate near the seed especially with chopped straw on top.
  • Early establishment
  • Cheap
  • No loss of soil biology by cultivation
  • You get to have another go if this fails as you've got plenty of time
  • A long stubble helps pigeon control
  • Less weeds germinating because you haven't disturbed the soil. Those that do come will be shallow rooted so will be more prone to a good kill by residuals like Kerb. You've still got post em herbicide choices like Belkar, Astrokerb, Shield and Galera, or Clearfield if you have a suitable variety
  • Cheap

So a stripper header leaving the straw long should serve to keep the pig-deons away. Cools.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I'm not sure stripper headers are the answer. The stubble has to stand back up afterwards & I've never seen much do that. As the crop grows it will knit it back down. Stripper header losses in barley are scary too.
 

Godber

Member
Location
NW Essex
The decaying straw will lock up N and be toxic to the growing plants as well as providing habitat for pests.

There is quite a good reason Autocasting fell out of favour. Every field had at least one big hole in it for no apparent reason, you got long vulnerable hypocotyls in the osr plants and it never yielded any better than anything else.
We have Autocast since its inception and discovered some years ago that a pass with a straw harrow improves the establishment. For the last 4 years we put the Autocaster on the rake but surprisingly with the long stubble that we prefer to leave it bungs up unless bone dry. We usually roll after although I'm not sure that brings much to the party. The biggest bonus is preserving moisture followed by cheap, early and fast .
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
We have Autocast since its inception and discovered some years ago that a pass with a straw harrow improves the establishment. For the last 4 years we put the Autocaster on the rake but surprisingly with the long stubble that we prefer to leave it bungs up unless bone dry. We usually roll after although I'm not sure that brings much to the party. The biggest bonus is preserving moisture followed by cheap, early and fast .

How soon after the combine do you use the rake? You won't have long before the seed starts to chit.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
This stuff won't yield either. Other side of the hill seems to have been hit by frost. That's not a small area. Worse than bloody peas this crop .
 

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GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
No idea yet. But I'd rather have something growing than no crop, even if it's ryegrass direct drilled into wheat stubble and let out for sheep.

I'm in mid tier. Although given how few people applied I ought to have put 1/3 the farm into legume fallow which, although currently looks ace, they haven't actually paid me fully for yet.
I reached a similar conclusion, now have 1/3 down to nectar/pollen for 5 years on the fields that are more challenging. Course it's so dry it's not coming up too well, but at least I still get paid (eventually). I may have to put a bit more seed on in the autumn if it's thin but I don't have to worry about it
 

Fred

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Mid Northants
Makes for interesting reading , the general feeling is to grow less or none at all , those growing it will probably go for a low cost option ,HSS, minimal sprays etc.
Most people abandoning the crop are from the midlands to the south of the country , which is the area most affected by the CSFB and drought last year .
We have lost approx 3% of ours , mostly due to the drought , locals set fire to a stubble field before we drilled it , 1/2 of the field was burnt , interestingly this burnt half had higher blackgrass pressure and poorer establishment.

We still havent answered whether we think this years CSFB pressure will be higher.
 
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Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Makes for interesting reading , the general feeling is to grow less or none at all , those growing it will probably go for a low cost option ,HSS, minimal sprays etc.
Most people abandoning the crop are from the midlands to the south of the country , which is the area most affected by the CSFB and drought last year .
We have lost approx 3% of ours , mostly due to the drought , locals set fire to a stubble field before we drilled it , 1/2 of the field was burnt , interestingly this burnt half had higher blackgrass pressure and poorer establishment.

We still havent answered whether we think this years CSFB pressure will be higher.

I did answer this earlier in the thread. With more larvae in the crop, it is highly likely that there will be more adults around in the autumn. If you ever wanted to have a year off growing brassicas, this is it IMO.

A colleague of mine in Herts gave up growing osr in 2016 after successive years of increasing flea beetle damage. He started again last year & got a reasonable crop with little pressure - no one else was growing brassicas in the area so the host for the pest had gone. Is this a pest that goes in cycles?


Imagine the Hare line as the osr area sown and the Lynx population as the CSFB population. Lower the national osr area and the pest levels will fall.
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
I think there is a third cycle in the Lynx/Hare graph above.

The grass the hare feeds on produces a toxin which makes the hare sick, making them easier to catch. this is why the hare numbers crash so dramatically.
When the grass is not being eaten it stops producing the toxin and hare numbers slowly rise followed by lynx.

It is a plant lead cycle.

Could seed from this years affected osr have natural deterrent properties ?

Would a plant which becomes resistant to a chemical revert to being susceptible over time ?

I have always believed stacking products to stop resistance is madness.

Rotating products with different modes of action on a yearly basis would be much better for everyone but the chemical salesmen.
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
That is a great graph, should be sent to every politician and scientist as it is, just to show how pointless counting numbers/year is in nature.

I think they will assume the lynx cause the crash.

Then explain about the grass, and perhaps they may get an idea that we actually know very little and it is very easy to make the wrong decision without all the facts.

We can never know the consequences from the past or into the future because there are too many hidden facts like the grass in this simple cycle.
 
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principal skinner

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Makes for interesting reading , the general feeling is to grow less or none at all , those growing it will probably go for a low cost option ,HSS, minimal sprays etc.
Most people abandoning the crop are from the midlands to the south of the country , which is the area most affected by the CSFB and drought last year .
We have lost approx 3% of ours , mostly due to the drought , locals set fire to a stubble field before we drilled it , 1/2 of the field was burnt , interestingly this burnt half had higher blackgrass pressure and poorer establishment.

We still havent answered whether we think this years CSFB pressure will be higher.

In answer to you question. Yes absolutely.
 

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