To mask up or not?

[primmiemoo]

Sounds very much like the covid vacccine is not working!

Then what? lockdowns for 6 months every year?? totally unworkable, we just have to live with it and carry on with normal life like pre March 20.

The covid vaccines are working. What is clear from hospital reports is that they are having bring in to treat those with covid who are unvaccinated. The vaccinated aren't getting ill enough to be admitted to hospital.

It's a good reason to take up boosters. I don't like injections, but my booster appointment is booked for next month.

 

[gone up the hill]

The covid vaccines are working. What is clear from hospital reports is that they are having bring in to treat those with covid who are unvaccinated. The vaccinated aren't getting ill enough to be admitted to hospital.

It's a good reason to take up boosters. I don't like injections, but my booster appointment is booked for next month.

Actually the figures say the opposite ( thou they seem to change every other day ), plenty of hospitals are full up with vaccinated people.

Certainly everyone that wants the covid jabs/ booster should have them if they get the chance to do so.

 

[Sid]

Actually the figures say the opposite ( thou they seem to change every other day ), plenty of hospitals are full up with vaccinated people.

Certainly everyone that wants the covid jabs/ booster should have them if they get the chance to do so.

You could be correct, It's not that I don't believe you but really need to back up your posts with some evidence.
Could ask for you to cut and paste the Web page where you got this for reference, but we know the answer.

Children in primary schools across the country can cut and paste for school projects but yet?

 

[bobk]

You had your flu jab yet? lol

Nope

 

[farmerm]

Complete waste of time, it's like trying to stop a gnat with a chain link fence.

If half the gnats are distracted by the fence that's only half as many getting a foothold on the other side of the fence... There is almost certainly a dose response. I doubt very many people get seriously ill from inhaling a single covid viral particle. Even once inside you most virus particles probably do not manage to find, bind to and hijack a working cell. The fewer invading pathogens that initially enter your body the longer it should take it to get established and the more hope there is of your immune system being able to stage a counter attack. You may not see masks working at the level of an individual but they really should make a difference to the number of serious infections within a population.

I agree, I dont think the vaccines are as effective as we might like to have seen however hospitals full of vaccinated people is only half the story when nearly 90% of the population are vaccinated..

I don't have the latest figures but as I understand it around 40% of hospitalisation are occuring in unvax and 60% are from vaccinated people. Given that 40% of unvax cases comes from little over 10% of the population it is pretty clear vaccines are making a significant difference at population level.

 

[Highland Farmer]

If half the gnats are distracted by the fence that's only half as many getting a foothold on the other side of the fence... There is almost certainly a dose response. I doubt very many people get seriously ill from inhaling a single covid viral particle. Even once inside you most virus particles probably do not manage to find, bind to and hijack a working cell. The fewer invading pathogens that initially enter your body the longer it should take it to get established and the more hope there is of your immune system being able to stage a counter attack. You may not see masks working at the level of an individual but they really should make a difference to the number of serious infections within a population.

I agree, I dont think the vaccines are as effective as we might like to have seen however hospitals full of vaccinated people is only half the story when nearly 90% of the population are vaccinated..

I don't have the latest figures but as I understand it around 40% of hospitalisation are occuring in unvax and 60% are from vaccinated people. Given that 40% of unvax cases comes from little over 10% of the population it is pretty clear vaccines are making a significant difference at population level.

If the vaccine worked then people wouldn't be dying of the illness the vaccine is meant to protect against, it's that simple. But they are in droves and there are more heart attacks and other blood related illnesses than ever before, which is why the ambulance services are overloaded to the point where the cat 1 calls are 20,000 - 30,000 per month extra - that's priority 1 mainly heart attacks. So the fact is the vaccine isn't working because those who've taken it still get ill and die. And whatever protection it does offer seems to be offset by the number of side effects and the long term effects are still unknown. I say everyone can choose what they want to do, that's up to them if they want to partake in the world's biggest experiment or not. But don't complain or try to tell me how to live my life or restrict me because I won't take part in something that hasn't been through proper testing. It's sad that the same people who want to impose their will on others are unwilling to stand up to the politicians, corporate oligarchs, unelected foundations, world elite and celebrities who are complete and utter hypocrites at every level. Instead they treat every word they say like it's gospel truth... Wake up or at least stop telling others what to do.

 

[balerman]

If the vaccine worked then people wouldn't be dying of the illness the vaccine is meant to protect against, it's that simple. But they are in droves and there are more heart attacks and other blood related illnesses than ever before, which is why the ambulance services are overloaded to the point where the cat 1 calls are 20,000 - 30,000 per month extra - that's priority 1 mainly heart attacks. So the fact is the vaccine isn't working because those who've taken it still get ill and die. And whatever protection it does offer seems to be offset by the number of side effects and the long term effects are still unknown. I say everyone can choose what they want to do, that's up to them if they want to partake in the world's biggest experiment or not. But don't complain or try to tell me how to live my life or restrict me because I won't take part in something that hasn't been through proper testing. It's sad that the same people who want to impose their will on others are unwilling to stand up to the politicians, corporate oligarchs, unelected foundations, world elite and celebrities who are complete and utter hypocrites at every level. Instead they treat every word they say like it's gospel truth... Wake up or at least stop telling others what to do.

I agree the vaccine is personal choice,but it’s obvious that they work.Easy to find people in hospital or the morgue that wish they had taken it.Some people would even say it’s selfish not to have it cos there are plenty of people in hospital beds that wouldn’t be there if they were vaccinated,thus freeing beds for others,cancer patients etc which are desperately needed.Knock on effects of COVID are only just coming through,our local hospice says their patient requirements have changed,normally with cancer patients they come in for day care for maybe a year before the inevitable.That isn’t happening now,they come straight in for end of life care,you work out why.

 

[Highland Farmer]

I agree the vaccine is personal choice,but it’s obvious that they work.Easy to find people in hospital or the morgue that wish they had taken it.Some people would even say it’s selfish not to have it cos there are plenty of people in hospital beds that wouldn’t be there if they were vaccinated,thus freeing beds for others,cancer patients etc which are desperately needed.Knock on effects of COVID are only just coming through,our local hospice says their patient requirements have changed,normally with cancer patients they come in for day care for maybe a year before the inevitable.That isn’t happening now,they come straight in for end of life care,you work out why.

Believe what you want, but the collected data shows it's different. Of the people who died in the last 4 weeks having a positive covid test in the last 60 days, 3544 were vaccinated and 783 were unvaccinated. So the unvaccinated accounted for 18% of deaths or for every unvaccinated death there are 4.5 vaccinated deaths, so it seems unlikely that the hospitals are full of unvaccinated at that ratio unless the unvaccinated are recovering at a far better rate than the vaccinated - which would be even more worrying. And in reality that doesn't include all the people suffering from side effects from the vaccine.

 

[Chris F]

Oh FFS, yet another thread about this sh1t, can we have a covid/masks/vaccination section please?
@Bald Rick
@Chris F

No

 

[Shep]

I agree the vaccine is personal choice,but it’s obvious that they work.Easy to find people in hospital or the morgue that wish they had taken it.Some people would even say it’s selfish not to have it cos there are plenty of people in hospital beds that wouldn’t be there if they were vaccinated,thus freeing beds for others,cancer patients etc which are desperately needed.Knock on effects of COVID are only just coming through,our local hospice says their patient requirements have changed,normally with cancer patients they come in for day care for maybe a year before the inevitable.That isn’t happening now,they come straight in for end of life care,you work out why.

Beg to differ, there are people dead and buried who would wish they never took it.
Including my father, who came home from his second jab with his heart racing, never slept for 3 nights until he dropped dead one morning, where I found him on the sofa still warm.
GP didn't want to know, wouldn't see him, told us over the phone it would pass and told us we were over reacting.
Now it wouldn't be so bad but he actually didn't want the second jab as the first one was hard on him, BUT my sister insisted he went and now she has to live with herself because of it.
How would anyone feel if they pressurised someone they cared for to do something which ultimately caused that person harm?

 

[Still Farming]

Compulsory here in Wales , All indoor places,
It's a habit now to carry a packet of masks in every vehicle, and a couple in coat pocket.
Businesses are liable if you haven't got a mask on.

But who enforces it???
Some over the top safe, others don't give a monkey's?
They all say their medically exempt???

 

[Swarfmonkey]

The covid vaccines are working. What is clear from hospital reports is that they are having bring in to treat those with covid who are unvaccinated. The vaccinated aren't getting ill enough to be admitted to hospital.

It's a good reason to take up boosters. I don't like injections, but my booster appointment is booked for next month.

Ummm. Even Full Fact had to admit that the majority of hospitalised Covid-19 patients in England were fully vaccinated. The graph half way down this page makes that clear.

​

 

[SilliamWhale]

But who enforces it???
Some over the top safe, others don't give a monkey's?
They all say their medically exempt???

Look we've had 3 weeks of people going on the pee in Cardiff (and the football) and virtually no one wears a mask in the pub and the stadium. These examples are good petri dishes and the facts of the matter is that whilst covid naturally ebbs and flows all the time everywhere there is plenty of practical evidence that most of these "measures" don't really make any difference.

England vs Wales - mask wearing. No patterns.

There is virtually no pattern between mask wearing and not wearing one. I mean seriously - if they worked why are not put in biohazard bins and disposed of properly? Mine has been in the car for 6 months and its minging

 

[DaveGrohl]

No

Pretty please?

 

[toquark]

I've no real truck with wearing a mask but the logic behind they're implementation is beyond me. You can be in a pub or restaurant with hundreds of people, having a pint chatting away. No masks. You can be at a wedding with hundreds of people, p!ssed up. No masks. Go to the rugby with 65,000 other people. No masks. But woe betide anyone who walks into the petrol station at midnight when there's nobody other than the teller and the customer without a mask on. Its bonkers.

 

[farmerm]

Ummm. Even Full Fact had to admit that the majority of hospitalised Covid-19 patients in England were fully vaccinated. The graph half way down this page makes that clear.

​

So 35% of infections from the 10% of the population who are unvaccinated... that actually proves vaccination is helping its just not as well as we would have liked

 

[farmerm]

If the vaccine worked then people wouldn't be dying of the illness the vaccine is meant to protect against, it's that simple. But they are in droves and there are more heart attacks and other blood related illnesses than ever before, which is why the ambulance services are overloaded to the point where the cat 1 calls are 20,000 - 30,000 per month extra - that's priority 1 mainly heart attacks. So the fact is the vaccine isn't working because those who've taken it still get ill and die. And whatever protection it does offer seems to be offset by the number of side effects and the long term effects are still unknown. I say everyone can choose what they want to do, that's up to them if they want to partake in the world's biggest experiment or not. But don't complain or try to tell me how to live my life or restrict me because I won't take part in something that hasn't been through proper testing. It's sad that the same people who want to impose their will on others are unwilling to stand up to the politicians, corporate oligarchs, unelected foundations, world elite and celebrities who are complete and utter hypocrites at every level. Instead they treat every word they say like it's gospel truth... Wake up or at least stop telling others what to do.

I’m not telling you what to do but you can F off with the wake up nonesense.

No vaccine gives 100% protection. Even a 5% reduction would still mean the vaccines are working and I remain confident the numbers are better than that.

Before attributing an increase in blood and heart problems to vaccination, how does the frequency of these problems compare between those who are vaccinated vs those who are unvaccinated? If you are right there will have been an clear increase in occurrences in those who are vaccinated whilst there will have been no change in the unvax group. That data must be available?

I will continue to believe in the checks and balances that lie within global medical research and investigative journalism and not live in paranoia.

If some of the anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists assertions had been right then we would all be dead by now. None of the earlier bulls**t has proven to be true

 

[primmiemoo]

Ummm. Even Full Fact had to admit that the majority of hospitalised Covid-19 patients in England were fully vaccinated. The graph half way down this page makes that clear.

​

Thanks for the link. I accept what the article says, but I was going by what's been said about the hospital local to me, in response to someone from broadly the same area.

It's good to see the high degree of immunity given by the vaccines confirmed.

 

[farmerm]

Believe what you want, but the collected data shows it's different. Of the people who died in the last 4 weeks having a positive covid test in the last 60 days, 3544 were vaccinated and 783 were unvaccinated. So the unvaccinated accounted for 18% of deaths or for every unvaccinated death there are 4.5 vaccinated deaths, so it seems unlikely that the hospitals are full of unvaccinated at that ratio unless the unvaccinated are recovering at a far better rate than the vaccinated - which would be even more worrying. And in reality that doesn't include all the people suffering from side effects from the vaccine.

choose 60 days?

If the vaccine worked then people wouldn't be dying of the illness the vaccine is meant to protect against, it's that simple. But they are in droves and there are more heart attacks and other blood related illnesses than ever before, which is why the ambulance services are overloaded to the point where the cat 1 calls are 20,000 - 30,000 per month extra - that's priority 1 mainly heart attacks. So the fact is the vaccine isn't working because those who've taken it still get ill and die. And whatever protection it does offer seems to be offset by the number of side effects and the long term effects are still unknown. I say everyone can choose what they want to do, that's up to them if they want to partake in the world's biggest experiment or not. But don't complain or try to tell me how to live my life or restrict me because I won't take part in something that hasn't been through proper testing. It's sad that the same people who want to impose their will on others are unwilling to stand up to the politicians, corporate oligarchs, unelected foundations, world elite and celebrities who are complete and utter hypocrites at every level. Instead they treat every word they say like it's gospel truth... Wake up or at least stop telling others what to do.

Oh do fudge off with the wake up nonsense.

No it’s not that simple, no vaccine gives 100% protection from illness of death. 100% protection would be wonderful but if a vaccine saves 5% of those who would have otherwise died it still works.

I don’t know the data on increased heart attacks and blood disorders

If the vaccine worked then people wouldn't be dying of the illness the vaccine is meant to protect against, it's that simple. But they are in droves and there are more heart attacks and other blood related illnesses than ever before, which is why the ambulance services are overloaded to the point where the cat 1 calls are 20,000 - 30,000 per month extra - that's priority 1 mainly heart attacks. So the fact is the vaccine isn't working because those who've taken it still get ill and die. And whatever protection it does offer seems to be offset by the number of side effects and the long term effects are still unknown. I say everyone can choose what they want to do, that's up to them if they want to partake in the world's biggest experiment or not. But don't complain or try to tell me how to live my life or restrict me because I won't take part in something that hasn't been through proper testing. It's sad that the same people who want to impose their will on others are unwilling to stand up to the politicians, corporate oligarchs, unelected foundations, world elite and celebrities who are complete and utter hypocrites at every level. Instead they treat every word they say like it's gospel truth... Wake up or at least stop telling others what to do.

I’m not telling you what to do but you can F off with the wake up nonsense thanks.

No vaccine gives 100% protection. Even a 5% reduction would still mean the vaccines are working and I remain confident the numbers are considerably better than that.

Before attributing an increase in blood and heart problems to vaccination, how does the frequency of these problems compare between those who are vaccinated vs those who are unvaccinated? If you are right there will have been an clear increase in occurrences in those who are vaccinated whilst there will have been no change in the unvax group. That data must be available?

I will continue to believe in the checks and balances that lie within global medical research and investigative journalism and not live in paranoia.

If some of the anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists assertions had been right then we would all be dead by now. None of the earlier bulls**t has proven to be true

 

[Old Boar]

I have always been very strongly in favour of vaccines, and here is why:-

(figures USA, could not find GB ones)

When I was a child there were no vaccines for mumps or measles, and I can remember clearly the sound of a small child "whooping" to try and get air into his lungs. We will never know the fear of polio or diphtheria for our children. There are still people living in iron lungs.

BUT

The vaccine has left me with blood problems. OK, I am the one in 1000, except I know two other women in the same boat. My experience means I dont trust the figures (any figures) at all, do not trust the medical professionals or the "advisers" in the slightest.
Time will tell if all this has shortened my life, but this will only effect me and my loved ones. Those in power dont give a flying whatsit.

It is up to each and every one of us to make our own choices, but it would be a darn sight easier if we could rely on some facts.