Top marks to scottish govt.

[PSQ]

Your tenuous grip of history is rather typical of the young and ill informed .
Scotland was forced into the uk at gunpoint in 1707, one hundred and three yrs after the union of the crowns.
Generous bribes were dished out to the scottish aristocrats by the english to persuade them to comply..
The scottish people were never asked. Widespread rioting followed.

"Tenuous grip of history"?

If your giving out a history lesson, then you've forgotten to mention that the Act of Union (1707) was brought about a by an ambitious Scottish Government who had sought trade and influence abroad by sending 3000 men to the Darien region of what is now Panama, and creating the colony of 'New Caledonia', with its capital : 'New Edinburgh'. It undoubtedly failed due to the embargo ordered by King William, and the disastrous choice of starting a colony in a malarial swamp.
https://www.nls.uk/exhibitions/treasures/scotland-and-darien

Of "the Scottish people who were never asked", more than 2000 of them were investors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27405350
"The disaster helped end Scotland's independence. For the colony had been funded by public subscription - an early example of a financial mania.
Public bodies, town corporations, members of parliament, landed gentry, and thousands of private citizens - sea captains and surgeons, apothecaries and ironmongers - sank their life savings into the scheme.
Between a quarter and a half of the available wealth of Scotland was spent, and lost."

And the real lesson from history?
- don't support a tin pot 'government' that can't deliver on its promises.

 

[glasshouse]

The english put a spanner in darien, maybe it would have failed anyway, but england guaranteed its failure.
Its the same old unionist shyte trotted out every time, scotlands too wee/ stupid/ poor to take its own decisions.
Darien was not the reason for the union, the trade sanctions and threat of invasion were.
As for 2000 investors , what a joke.
The ordinary people had no money and no say in either darien or the union.

 

[PSQ]

Its the same old unionist shyte trotted out every time, scotlands too wee/ stupid/ poor to take its own decisions.

Thats the line that gets trotted out every time the nationalists loose an argument, like the unspoken truths saved for bitter end of a lovers tiff, to kill the 'discussion'. If this was a divorce the Nationalists would want the house. It's just a shame that the majority of Scots would rather you 'nationalists' upped and left rather than have to listen to your incessant whining. There's plenty of space for you all in New Edinburgh.

As for 2000 investors , what a joke.

Are you accusing the National library of Scotland of peddling English "lies" ? Hmmm.
https://www.nls.uk/exhibitions/treasures/scotland-and-darien/company-of-scotland-subscribers
http://www.douglashistory.co.uk/history/Lists/darien investors.html#.WfXT50x0eV4

 

[DrDunc]

Well at least Scotland won't suffer the horrors that the better together campaign said would happen if the referendum was in favour of independence.

Since Scotland isn't independent, we won't lose eu membership.

Since Scotland isn't independent, we won't lose the shipyard contacts to build 13 type 26 frigates.

Since Scotland isn't independent, we will have billions of pounds invested in carbon capture technology.

Since Scotland isn't independent, we will have civil service jobs protected, notably hmrc won't be relocated out of Scotland.

Phew, it would be awful if we'd voted for independence because Scotland would have lost all these things.....

Oh, no, wait, bugger

 

[glasshouse]

Thats the line that gets trotted out every time the nationalists loose an argument, like the unspoken truths saved for bitter end of a lovers tiff, to kill the 'discussion'. If this was a divorce the Nationalists would want the house. It's just a shame that the majority of Scots would rather you 'nationalists' upped and left rather than have to listen to your incessant whining. There's plenty of space for you all in New Edinburgh.


Are you accusing the National library of Scotland of peddling English "lies" ? Hmmm.
https://www.nls.uk/exhibitions/treasures/scotland-and-darien/company-of-scotland-subscribers
http://www.douglashistory.co.uk/history/Lists/darien investors.html#.WfXT50x0eV4

I did not deny there were 2000 investors.
i just said it was a joke as the ordinary people had neither money nor say.

 

[glasshouse]

Thats the line that gets trotted out every time the nationalists loose an argument, like the unspoken truths saved for bitter end of a lovers tiff, to kill the 'discussion'. If this was a divorce the Nationalists would want the house. It's just a shame that the majority of Scots would rather you 'nationalists' upped and left rather than have to listen to your incessant whining. There's plenty of space for you all in New Edinburgh.


Are you accusing the National library of Scotland of peddling English "lies" ? Hmmm.
https://www.nls.uk/exhibitions/treasures/scotland-and-darien/company-of-scotland-subscribers
http://www.douglashistory.co.uk/history/Lists/darien investors.html#.WfXT50x0eV4

The majority of scots now favour independence over the brexit and total tory shambles we now exist under.

 

[PSQ]

I did not deny there were 2000 investors.
i just said it was a joke as the ordinary people had neither money nor say.

I didn't say you did. I just provided you with a couple of links to prove that the investors were church ministers, vintners, surgeons, chemists, solicitors, merchants / shop keepers, soldiers, farmers, boat owners / skippers, and a some "soap boilers".

Again, the lesson from history here is that if "ordinary people" are going to sponsor something risky enough to bankrupt the nation, then the "ordinary people" have to live with the consequences. Sadly the full list of "ordinary people" isn't available on the internet, but if you pop on down to the library on the George IV Bridge you might just find some of your ancestors on the list.
If you want to know who sold Scotland down the river in 1707, you need look no further.

 

[glasshouse]

I didn't say you did. I just provided you with a couple of links to prove that the investors were church ministers, vintners, surgeons, chemists, solicitors, merchants / shop keepers, soldiers, farmers, boat owners / skippers, and a some "soap boilers".

Again, the lesson from history here is that if "ordinary people" are going to sponsor something risky enough to bankrupt the nation, then the "ordinary people" have to live with the consequences. Sadly the full list of "ordinary people" isn't available on the internet, but if you pop on down to the library on the George IV Bridge you might just find some of your ancestors on the list.
If you want to know who sold Scotland down the river in 1707, you need look no further.

What rubbish.
If what you say is true we would need a list of who got the english bribes. I wager the boilermaker didnt feature .

 

[toquark]

The majority of scots now favour independence over the brexit and total tory shambles we now exist under.

Given the result of the general election, I strongly suspect this assertion is nonsense. The reality is that SNP have failed to convince the majority of the economic argument particularly given the two mainstays of the Scottish economy, oil and financial services have spectacularly failed over the last decade.

Coupled with this the 30% or so who favour independence at any cost do their cause no favour by refusing to provide any real solutions to these problems, save blaming Westminster (read, the English) for all their problems, both historic and current. They have alienated many with their lack of pragmatism and thinly disguised grievance agenda.

 

[RobFZS]

The majority of scots now favour independence over the brexit and total tory shambles we now exist under.

how many Scot's voted for brexit?

 

[glasshouse]

Given the result of the general election, I strongly suspect this assertion is nonsense. The reality is that SNP have failed to convince the majority of the economic argument particularly given the two mainstays of the Scottish economy, oil and financial services have spectacularly failed over the last decade.

Coupled with this the 30% or so who favour independence at any cost do their cause no favour by refusing to provide any real solutions to these problems, save blaming Westminster (read, the English) for all their problems, both historic and current. They have alienated many with their lack of pragmatism and thinly disguised grievance agenda.

The last general election delivered 36 snp seats from 59. Thats 61%
if thats not a majority i dont know what is.
Last time i looked, financial services were doing rather well, and oil was a star performer till 2015, thats only 2 yrs ago.
Contrast our economy with that of the uk, racking up debt at unprecedented levels and soon to reach £2 trillion.
Scotland needs to cast off from the sinking uk before it gets dragged down with it.

 

[glasshouse]

how many Scot's voted for brexit?

64% voted remain

 

[PSQ]

The last general election delivered 36 snp seats from 59. Thats 61%
if thats not a majority i dont know what is.
Last time i looked, financial services were doing rather well, and oil was a star performer till 2015, thats only 2 yrs ago.
Contrast our economy with that of the uk, racking up debt at unprecedented levels and soon to reach £2 trillion.
Scotland needs to cast off from the sinking uk before it gets dragged down with it.

Sorry, who's dragging who down?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...tland-would-need-to-cut-deficit-says-sturgeon
Independent Scotland would need to cut deficit, says Sturgeon
Data shows country spent £13.5bn more than it raised in taxes last year, a gap of 8.3%, compared to UK’s 2.4%

 

[glasshouse]

Sorry, who's dragging who down?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...tland-would-need-to-cut-deficit-says-sturgeon
Independent Scotland would need to cut deficit, says Sturgeon
Data shows country spent £13.5bn more than it raised in taxes last year, a gap of 8.3%, compared to UK’s 2.4%

That would be the GERS figures cooked up by westminster which happened to show zero income from oil while norway earned £20 billion.?

 

[PSQ]

That would be the GERS figures cooked up by westminster which happened to show zero income from oil while norway earned £20 billion.?

@glasshouse , you can't just keep making 'facts' up without making yourself look like an idiot:

"cooked up by Westminster":
http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS
The Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) web area provides information on the annually published GERS report. GERS is compiled by statisticians and economists in the Office of the Chief Economic Adviser of the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government's Chief Statistician takes responsibility for this publication.


Excuses cooked up by the SNP:
https://www.snp.org/gers_a_snapshot_of_scotland_s_finances_not_the_full_picture

 

[glasshouse]

@glasshouse , you can't just keep making 'facts' up without making yourself look like an idiot

"cooked up by Westminster":
http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS
The Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) web area provides information on the annually published GERS report. GERS is compiled by statisticians and economists in the Office of the Chief Economic Adviser of the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government's Chief Statistician takes responsibility for this publication.


Excuses cooked up by the SNP:
https://www.snp.org/gers_a_snapshot_of_scotland_s_finances_not_the_full_picture

The predictions for brexit are losses of £30 billion for scotland alone.
That will turn our so called deficit of £12 billion into a defecit of £42 billion.
Anything you want to say about that to a country that voted 64% remain?

 

[RobFZS]

64% voted remain

Wasnt what i asked was it?

1,018,322 VOTED to leave the EU, so don't come with this rubbish that you were forced out by England, have a word with some of your fellow countrymen on ' dragging' you out , victim complex is sad.

Norway ain't ran by spendthrift socialists that give a fortune to the Eu either.

You always cite Norway as an example, but they're not in the Eu, joined up nat thinking?

 

[glasshouse]

Wasnt what i asked was it?

1,018,322 VOTED to leave the EU, so don't come with this rubbish that you were forced out by England, have a word with some of your fellow countrymen on ' dragging' you out , victim complex is sad.

Norway ain't ran by spendthrift socialists that give a fortune to the Eu either.

You always cite Norway as an example, but they're not in the Eu, joined up nat thinking?

ok, so 64% of our electorate can be safely ignored?
England is dragging us out, unless you went to one of those special schools where they teach that 64% is less than 36%.
Norway is now one of the richest countries on earth, with nearly half a million krone per head of population invested in their oil fund.
Where did scotlands oil wealth go?

 

[PSQ]

The predictions for brexit are losses of £30 billion for scotland alone.
That will turn our so called deficit of £12 billion into a defecit of £42 billion.
Anything you want to say about that to a country that voted 64% remain?

More 'made up CyberNat facts' ?

Post an HTML link to show the source for your £30 billion loss / £42 billion deficit "prediction", or admit your talking crap.

Whats it to be?

 

[glasshouse]

More 'made up CyberNat facts' ?

Post an HTML link to show the source for your £30 billion loss / £42 billion deficit "prediction", or admit your talking crap.

Whats it to be?

Look it up yourself, London School of economics estimated hard brexit to cost scotland £29.6 billion