Topcon GPS, & Leica base station?

[Tazzerblue]

I recently bought a Used topcon 150 system with an AGI-3 as a unit. Then I purchased the RTK module for it. I have a few question, Will the RTK module automatically communicate with the GX-45, or do I need some kind of unlock? Second will a Leica base station communicate with the topcon? or can I use MNCORS and a cell phone? and will the cell phone link automatically communicate with the topcon? or what is the go between?
This is my first system, and I don't understand how different units communicate.
I know the AGI-3 RTK correction format is: CMR2/CMR+ (trimble compatible) RTCM SC 104 Ver. 2.2, 2.3, or 3.0
RTCM message type: 3, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, user selectable.
Most of this means nothing to me. LOL
,

I would add I'm from Minnesota, USA. and have Free MNCORS available.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

MNCORS will be sending RTCM 3.x format correction data so should be fine. Have you got a SIM card installed in the RTK module yet? If MNCORS is a free sub and you have good mobile service, that will be a good route and pretty easy to setup.

The Leica base pushing out RTCM 3.x corrections will also be compatible.

I'd avoid setting or using any CMR corrections, as outside of genuine Trimble kit they are based on various manufacturers 'interpretations' of CMR (as it is not an open published standard), this especially applies to CMR+.

 

[Tazzerblue]

MNCORS will be sending RTCM 3.x format correction data so should be fine. Have you got a SIM card installed in the RTK module yet? If MNCORS is a free sub and you have good mobile service, that will be a good route and pretty easy to setup.

The Leica base pushing out RTCM 3.x corrections will also be compatible.

I'd avoid setting or using any CMR corrections, as outside of genuine Trimble kit they are based on various manufacturers 'interpretations' of CMR (as it is not an open published standard), this especially applies to CMR+.

Thank you. That I can understand.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

You had replied to my post about topcon AGi-3 with rtk module and a Leica base station.
I have a question about the SIM card, what is the cost for that? And would I be happy with how that works? I would need a data plan, and Ipad to keep my ph usable. or I may be able to acquire a Leica ATX 1230 base unit. Will that work with the Topcon? My dealer said just buy a AGI-4, but he doesn't have to pay for it. But I guess I don't know what that cost either.
Trying to get this put together soon..
Thanks for your help.
can we chat via email?

Hi - I’m going to reply here, in your original thread, rather than the other thread, so it makes more sense.

If I was in your position, I would not buy that Leica base. From what I can tell it’s probably an ex survey base and GPS only rather than at least GPS+GLONASS. It’s difficult to know what radio it has with it, so a radio link to the tractor may not work out of the box. Secondly and more importantly, it would appear you have free access to an NTRIP network and that’s a free 24x7 service that someone else looks after. Wish we had that here! That’s money in the bank, keep it there!

A data SIM will only cost you a few bucks a year to run in reality. Do you have reasonably good mobile phone coverage where you farm? If you know what mobile networks provide good service on your farm, call into one of their stores and ask for a data only SIM, as you won’t need either call minutes or texts. A modest data allowance, say 1GB per month (could probably get away with half that) and you should be away.

Feel free to PM me here and I will respond.

 

[Tazzerblue]

Hi - I’m going to reply here, in your original thread, rather than the other thread, so it makes more sense.

If I was in your position, I would not buy that Leica base. From what I can tell it’s probably an ex survey base and GPS only rather than at least GPS+GLONASS. It’s difficult to know what radio it has with it, so a radio link to the tractor may not work out of the box. Secondly and more importantly, it would appear you have free access to an NTRIP network and that’s a free 24x7 service that someone else looks after. Wish we had that here! That’s money in the bank, keep it there!

A data SIM will only cost you a few bucks a year to run in reality. Do you have reasonably good mobile phone coverage where you farm? If you know what mobile networks provide good service on your farm, call into one of their stores and ask for a data only SIM, as you won’t need either call minutes or texts. A modest data allowance, say 1GB per month (could probably get away with half that) and you should be away.

Feel free to PM me here and I will respond.

This is the Leica system.
Agco RTK system- Base station and Rover - Agco Leica ATX 1230 base with Autoguide 300 I've been trying to determine what it operates on and if the topcon AGI-3 would receive the data. If I can get this bought for 1000.00 I think that would be the way to go.
I'm still do not completely understand the sim card. I assume its installed in the AGI-3 module. I have Verizon cell service and coverage is very good. I have been informed that the module I have has a sim card that is NOT serviceable. I'm getting all kinds of different answers. I'm LOST! Can I just replace or update the SIM card ? and buy a data plan for an Ipad to run the steering? And what is the cost for a New SIM card?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

You should be able to simply put in a new GSM based SIM card into the RTK module you purchased for your Topcon receiver.

Do you know what model of RTK module it is, is it labelled? From some googling I can see that there was an updated RTK module (Topcon AGA3928) released for the AGI-3 receiver in 2009. This module contains a GSM modem (for connecting to CORS RTK networks like MNCORS) in addition to a 915 MHz spread-spectrum radio for connection to a base station with radio.

So if this is the same as your module you should see a small rectangular door secured with 4 screws. Inside will be the SIM card. Here’s a picture of one I found on eBay earlier...

Bear in mind I’m 4000 miles away, so I’m on really shaky ground with mobile network operator knowledge in Minnesota - I’m lead to understand T-mobile has pretty good GSM network coverage there? Verizon is no good as that’s CDMA so will not be compatible with the GSM modem tech in your RTK module.

Again from furious googling it looks like T-mobile will sell you a “3-in-1 SIM starter kit” for $25. I guess you just need to add some credit/plan and away you go...

https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone/t-mobile-3-in-1-sim-starter-kit

 

[Tazzerblue]

I don't currently have the unit with me, I left it with my dealer. I did how ever remove those 4 screws and there were 2 switches underneath. I think one was for the radio on/off, the other I don't remember. I believe via serial # my unit is a 2011 so it should have the newer GSM configuration. I can attach a photo. I have contacted Verizon and yes they do operate on GSM network here. If all this is correct it should work. Too bad I can't get the regional mgr to tell me if it will or not.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I don't currently have the unit with me, I left it with my dealer. I did how ever remove those 4 screws and there were 2 switches underneath. I think one was for the radio on/off, the other I don't remember. I believe via serial # my unit is a 2011 so it should have the newer GSM configuration. I can attach a photo. I have contacted Verizon and yes they do operate on GSM network here. If all this is correct it should work. Too bad I can't get the regional mgr to tell me if it will or not.

Good stuff. Can the dealer not confirm the unit will work with the local CORS network and fit the SIM card for you?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

If the part number on your RTK module is 01-060412-03 (bit hard to see in your photo) then searching for that part no. reveals it’s a module with the 915MHz radio and a GSM modem in it. So that’s good.

Seems bizarre that the SIM card can’t be swapped, or not easily at least. Perhaps it’s fixed on the board inside the module, which would require the full cover to be removed?

By comparison it’s relatively straightforward to pop in a SIM card in the later AGI-4 RTK module. I’ve done that a few times since I’ve had mine.

Unfortunately I can’t turn up any more info on these earlier AGI-3 modules other than these techical data sheets (for the same module but with different UHF radio variants in them) ...

https://fccid.io/ANATEL/03439-11-06473/Manual/C661033D-3806-4C53-BAB0-D1B34FF370DC/PDF

https://fccid.io/ANATEL/03096-11-06473/Manual/2EB0FC83-35A3-4182-85B2-24C6F586630B/PDF

 

[MickW]

Hi I believe that the Leica - AGCO RTK base station isn't supported by AGCO or Leica anymore, although AGCO had new stock 4 or 5 year ago.
The base must be pre 2008 so I wouldn't want to build a system expecting this to work for the long term, but you might be lucky.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Hi I believe that the Leica - AGCO RTK base station isn't supported by AGCO or Leica anymore, although AGCO had new stock 4 or 5 year ago.
The base must be pre 2008 so I wouldn't want to build a system expecting this to work for the long term, but you might be lucky.

Am I correct in saying that base is GPS only which if so becomes pretty limiting? Seeing as we’re now in a time when four global constellations are the norm, unless it’s fallen off the back of a truck, putting good money into a base that can only do one is not wise imho.

You can save a lot picking up older second hand kit and cobbling it together. But caveat is that there’s no guarantee it’s going to work or work together. With non warrantied, out of support products you have a lot of heavy lifting and fast learning to do.

 

[MickW]

Am I correct in saying that base is GPS only which if so becomes pretty limiting? Seeing as we’re now in a time when four global constellations are the norm, unless it’s fallen off the back of a truck, putting good money into a base that can only do one is not wise imho.

You can save a lot picking up older second hand kit and cobbling it together. But caveat is that there’s no guarantee it’s going to work or work together. With non warrantied, out of support products you have a lot of heavy lifting and fast learning to do.

I don't know if it has Glonass or not as it was prior to my involvement with Leica, as far as I know it was produced for AGCO only and is nothing like the mojoRTK base station.
On the odd occasions that we had service requests we passed them onto the Brisbane office which at that time was Ag and Mining.
Ag development then moved to Denmark prior to Hexagon Leica.
All mojoRTK bases sold from about 2008 certainly had Glonnass as standard or as a software upgrade. AGCO support might be able to advise failing that try Leica survey or Hexgon agriculture.
The base will work until it needs support or an upgrade so I wouldn't spend much on the old AGCO base.

 

[Tazzerblue]

Good stuff. Can the dealer not confirm the unit will work with the local CORS network and fit the SIM card for you?

No the dealer can't. I called topcon customer service on Friday and they couldn't find this unit's SN#. He claimed because it was probably sold with an Agco Tractor New. I think that's bulls**t! So she told me nothing new, except no other base station will work besides topcon Unless it's "DUHF" don't remember what the hell that means. dual or digital? uhf? I'm attaching a photo with that little door removed. What I can read is SIM card, AGS 400 RTK module. Is the sim card underneath that stainless clip? What are the Numbers listed? Then on the bottom are 2 on/off switches, I assume there for the 915 mhz radio and rtk??? Will a Construction Hiper lite plus base station work? There are several of those on an auction and I might just take a chance on one.
Thanks, for your help, Kevin

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Can you attach a photo of the SIM card bay to the thread?

I’ll be honest I’ve never seen the inside of an AGI-3 receiver, but what you describe sounds like a typical SIM card holder. They usually are either fixed in place and the SIM card slides between it and the board, or sometimes they slide across and lock the card in place. Others I’ve seen hinge up, the card is then slid into position and they then lock back. I’ll add some photos of some other units I have here so you can compare.

There is usually some drawing or pictogram showing the cut corner of the SIM card for orientation. Typically the gold contacts of the SIM will match up with an equivalent set of contacts on the board.

Maybe best to take it into the Verizon store and get one of the spotty youths to help you get the card in situ correctly.

Seeing as you’ve bought yourself the screen receiver and RTK radio, I would concentrate on getting those working first - especially get this RTK module recognised and working with the AGI-3 receiver asap. You don’t want to spend any more money on other bases etc before you get at least this working.

Not sure what written documentation you have to hand. Here is a helpful link with some resources to the GX45 screen and AGI-3 receiver you may find helpful in the meantime...

http://agworld.cc/topcon-gx45-system-150-controller-console-tech-tips/

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Here’s a couple of shots showing SIM card (with yellow border) in and out of the holder in a little ComNav receiver. You can see the outline shape showing the orientation of the card in the slot.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Full sized SIM in my 15 year old farts Sony “get out of jail” phone. This has a slide lock style arrangement.

 

[Tazzerblue]

Can you attach a photo of the SIM card bay to the thread?

I’ll be honest I’ve never seen the inside of an AGI-3 receiver, but what you describe sounds like a typical SIM card holder. They usually are either fixed in place and the SIM card slides between it and the board, or sometimes they slide across and lock the card in place. Others I’ve seen hinge up, the card is then slid into position and they then lock back. I’ll add some photos of some other units I have here so you can compare.

There is usually some drawing or pictogram showing the cut corner of the SIM card for orientation. Typically the gold contacts of the SIM will match up with an equivalent set of contacts on the board.

Maybe best to take it into the Verizon store and get one of the spotty youths to help you get the card in situ correctly.

Seeing as you’ve bought yourself the screen receiver and RTK radio, I would concentrate on getting those working first - especially get this RTK module recognised and working with the AGI-3 receiver asap. You don’t want to spend any more money on other bases etc before you get at least this working.

Not sure what written documentation you have to hand. Here is a helpful link with some resources to the GX45 screen and AGI-3 receiver you may find helpful in the meantime...

http://agworld.cc/topcon-gx45-system-150-controller-console-tech-tips/

 

[Tazzerblue]

Now I understand, it has No sim card installed!! Thanks for your photo, I forgot to add mine! I was in a rush to get to a meeting. Would a SIM card from my old cell ph work? What do the 2 on/off switches do?? turn radio on/off and what else?
Hopefully my photo's have now has been added.
I like your idea of taking it to my Cell phone store and have them guide me..
I maybe see the light at the end of the tunnel..

edit; yes you had the right part number listed. You have been more help than the dealer and 2 topcon rep's! Who should know what there doing or at least be able to find out!!
edit; so does that stainless clip come snap off to put sim card in?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Now I understand, it has No sim card installed!! Thanks for your photo, I forgot to add mine! I was in a rush to get to a meeting. Would a SIM card from my old cell ph work? What do the 2 on/off switches do?? turn radio on/off and what else?
Hopefully my photo's have now has been added.
I like your idea of taking it to my Cell phone store and have them guide me..
I maybe see the light at the end of the tunnel..

edit; yes you had the right part number listed. You have been more help than the dealer and 2 topcon rep's! Who should know what there doing or at least be able to find out!!

No worries. Happy to try and help.

Yes you would need a GSM compatible SIM card with a modest data plan. No need for voice minutes or text messages (you won’t be making calls etc). Should be simple to slide in under the stainless clip. Gold contacts face down and cut/off corner goes to the top left in your photo.

Don’t exactly know what those DIP switches do - best to leave them in their current positions - these are possibly to with enabling the GSM radio modem and also the 915 MHz spread spectrum UHF radio.

You should try and connect the radio module and power it up with your AGI-3 to make sure it’s recognised by the receiver and it unlocks/enables RTK on the receiver before you go any further.

 

[Tazzerblue]

Thanks, I will have to get a male to female adapter for one of the cables to attach to the AES Wheel. but will try and power it up tomorrow. cross my fingers.