Topcon hiper v

[Richard Smyth]

hi all.

I have the above rtk base station and would like to get more details stance out of it.

Does anyone know of a simple way to set up a repeater to run off it.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Do you mean like a high power (35 or 50 watt) UHF radio?

You could hook up something like an ArWest or Satel to the serial port (think they’re Lemo/ODU style connectors without looking it up).

Either transmit on a different frequency or disable the built-in radio and transmit on the same one.

 

[Richard Smyth]

I was thinking along the line of a repeater 20 km from the base which would allow me to get to block of land 30 km from where I’m planning to put the hipper v. There are a couple of hills in the way hence thinking about a remote repeater.

The high power radio might be an option though as currently only transmitting on 1 watt

 

[Northern farmer]

Satel radios can operate in a repeater mode too (receive a message and transmit it optionally on a different frequency) but I'm not sure if it only works in the Satel proprietary message format (with addressing).

How is your cellular coverage? NTRIP would would reach from Australia to Europe (I know the correction signal is not useful).

 

[Richard Smyth]

Cellular coverage is rubbish. That’s what I initially bought but didn’t give me good enough signal.

If I could get hold of a Trimble receiver in the fendt I’d revisit ntrip as they say it will hold rtk for a period in no signal.

Could I set up the hiper v to give me a signal over ntrip without having to subscribe to a service as ntrip is extremely expensive here

 

[Northern farmer]

Could I set up the hiper v to give me a signal over ntrip without having to subscribe to a service as ntrip is extremely expensive here

Not familiar with the Hiper V but I run my base on NTRIP and and external radio simultaneously. If coverage is poor, I wouldn't count on NTRIP, not even with the Trimble RTK extension, however they call it. I have no experience on Trimble but I'd start from a proper RTK correction signal delivery and leave the backup solutions for a real backup.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Any chance of moving the Hiper V to one of the hills you mention, possibly with a radio mast with a high-gain colinear antenna? Then get an external high power radio, hook it up via the serial port of the Hiper V and then go from there.

That would give you good radio range, without having to resort to repeaters etc.

 

[Richard Smyth]

Any chance of moving the Hiper V to one of the hills you mention, possibly with a radio mast with a high-gain colinear antenna? Then get an external high power radio, hook it up via the serial port of the Hiper V and then go from there.

That would give you good radio range, without having to resort to repeaters etc.

I think this is probably the best option. I will look into this more and see if I can do a deal with the land owners to put it on a hill.

I work with the guy who owns one of the hills so should be possible. Will have to find out what power requirements a high power radio needs as may need additional batteries and solar panels.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I think this is probably the best option. I will look into this more and see if I can do a deal with the land owners to put it on a hill.

I work with the guy who owns one of the hills so should be possible. Will have to find out what power requirements a high power radio needs as may need additional batteries and solar panels.

You might not have to run the radio flat out, you can set up a Satel EasyPro 35 to output 10, 20, 25 or the full 35w output. Decent antenna and nice high mounting pos definitely works wonders. There is also a 25w version of this radio available, which does half these power outputs - don’t know what power limit/versions are allowed in oz by the spectrum police there.

They are power hungry beasts and in actual use will use twice or more of that radio power in leccy - so you would definitely need to up your batteries/solar, from just the HiperV on its own - or consider installing a remote on/off to the power for the radio using a GSM relay switch device to save power if your off grid. Send a text message from your phone to switch the radio on and off. The Hiper base on its own will only use 3 or 4 watts with its internal radio switched off.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Just thinking some more about this, if you use a 6 dBi gain colinear antenna, similar to this one from Radio Structures (I have one of their 3 dBi antennas) - then you will double your effective radiated output power.

This means you can run your radio at much lower output power, handy if you have restrictions with your power supply as you do in an off grid situation.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Good quality high power radios, either the Satel or ArWest...

https://www.satel.com/products/radio-modems/satelline-4pro/

http://www.arwestcom.com/products/uhf/aw435bt

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I’m terms of remote power management, I’ve used these C4 GSM Control and Monitoring modules from Advent Controls. They are well designed and modestly priced, about £75 with an enclosure box and GSM antenna.

Some really useful features like 2 independent relays rated at 240v and 10 amps. So would easily switch the 12v supply into the radio. They also have an analog input for battery monitoring - so you could set it up to send you a text message if the solar/battery supply is below a predetermined voltage.

You could use the second relay to switch power to the Hiper V or remotely reset it etc.

 

[Northern farmer]

Did anyone (I guess it means Pheasant Surprise) understand the Satel repeater mode. I did not find any explanation on the message detection. How does it figure out if a complete message has been received, ready to be retransmitted?

It just sounds like a very simple way to set up the extended range radio. The current base could be left as it is and the repeater would only need power to operate. Of course needs to be configured as a repeater at the correct frequency and format first.

I assume it should be able to transmit the received message first before the base transmits a new message. Assuming 25 kHz BW while mine handles all the traffic at 12.5 kHz bandwidth and still isn't transmitting full time.

 

[Field Marshall]

Good quality high power radios, either the Satel or ArWest...
View attachment 652138

https://www.satel.com/products/radio-modems/satelline-4pro/

View attachment 652140

http://www.arwestcom.com/products/uhf/aw435bt

I run a Satel like this one in repeater mode for our base station. The RTK receiver is not next to the mast.
The signal is sent in pulses so can be repeated on the same frequency with no problems.

 

[Field Marshall]

Did anyone (I guess it means Pheasant Surprise) understand the Satel repeater mode. I did not find any explanation on the message detection. How does it figure out if a complete message has been received, ready to be retransmitted?

It just sounds like a very simple way to set up the extended range radio. The current base could be left as it is and the repeater would only need power to operate. Of course needs to be configured as a repeater at the correct frequency and format first.

I assume it should be able to transmit the received message first before the base transmits a new message. Assuming 25 kHz BW while mine handles all the traffic at 12.5 kHz bandwidth and still isn't transmitting full time.

Some time since I set it up but it was fairly straight forward.
The smaller (cheaper) Easy radio will work in repeater mode. It will not have the output of the larger radio but may be enough if placed high enough?

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Sounds a good setup you have @Field Marshall - I think the challenge for Richard if he decides to keep the Hiper V in the same location is whether its 1 watt radio will have the radio range to reliably be within reach of the proposed location of the new radio/ repeater.

To my way of thinking (with a goal of buying just one extra radio) in the new scenario, the key is finding the ideal site for this radio whether that becomes a new sole base or is a repeater.

The new site needs to have the best possible radio range to the furthest place where Richard will be working. Having only one physical install/site also has a lot to recommend it from simplicity of setup and ongoing maintenance.

A simple radio survey would resolve where you put your base radios, to get best coverage for the least infrastructure.

.

 

[Field Marshall]

Sounds a good setup you have @Field Marshall - I think the challenge for Richard if he decides to keep the Hiper V in the same location is whether its 1 watt radio will have the radio range to reliably be within reach of the proposed location of the new radio/ repeater.

To my way of thinking (with a goal of buying just one extra radio) in the new scenario, the key is finding the ideal site for this radio whether that becomes a new sole base or is a repeater.

The new site needs to have the best possible radio range to the furthest place where Richard will be working. Having only one physical install/site also has a lot to recommend it from simplicity of setup and ongoing maintenance.

A simple radio survey would resolve where you put your base radios, to get best coverage for the least infrastructure.

.

We have a 0.5W radio feeding the large 35W repeater. When close to our setup you pick up both radios, not an issue because they send the same signal half a second apart. It always amazes me just how far away we can pick up the 0.5W radio on high spots that are line of site.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

We have a 0.5W radio feeding the large 35W repeater. When close to our setup you pick up both radios, not an issue because they send the same signal half a second apart. It always amazes me just how far away we can pick up the 0.5W radio on high spots that are line of site.

If he sets himself up with the 35 watt Satel, he can use the display with RSSI indication to very easily do a radio survey. Need nothing but power and a good antenna. Can do it within the car/truck.

 

[Field Marshall]

All I did was drive around with a radio in the Land Rover watching the receive data lights, green good, red not good.
Its worth researching power loss in coaxial cable if you use a long length.

 

[Richard Smyth]

Lots of good information here. I’ll have to have a think and research the satel radio a bit more.

It looks like it will do exactly what I want. I have 2 sites in mind where I know the base and tractor currently work at. These are reasonably high elevation at about 20 km apart.

The tractor will steer from the base station at 25 km but it doesn’t need much of an obstacle to lose the signal.

The other concern but as mentioned isn’t an issue was the tractor picking up both base and repeater. The different timed signal should mean this isn’t an issue.

Any idea on the cost of the satel unit?