Trace element drench

[Razor8]

Really?

We've just done all our lambs and they've put on condition since then.

Edit: I thought you meant the six month ones only lasted six weeks.

is it the cobalt high guard youve used?

 

[BDBed]

The best way to find out what you need it to get your grass analysed. This will tell you what potential lock ups you may have or deficiencies. It is good idea to do this before any supplementation especially with a bolus. As in some cases the bolus will not be effective at dealing with a lock up. This will also show an appropriate drench to use ie. whether you need chelates.

Each form of the elements has different availabilities. So mixing your own drench may be cheaper but you may need to use three times as much to get the same amount in the body.

 

[neilo]

The best way to find out what you need it to get your grass analysed. This will tell you what potential lock ups you may have or deficiencies. It is good idea to do this before any supplementation especially with a bolus. As in some cases the bolus will not be effective at dealing with a lock up. This will also show an appropriate drench to use ie. whether you need chelates.

Could you explain how any test shows 'whether you need chelates', and also point to any independent trial work that show chelated drenches have any longer lasting effect than any other (cheaper) drenches.
I would suggest none give more than a quick, short term boost to TE levels, and shouldn't be marketed as anything else.

 

[BDBed]

Could you explain how any test shows 'whether you need chelates', and also point to any independent trial work that show chelated drenches have any longer lasting effect than any other (cheaper) drenches.
I would suggest none give more than a quick, short term boost to TE levels, and shouldn't be marketed as anything else.

I would agree that a drenches should be used as a boost for times of need like tupping or to bring levels up then with continued supplementation to maintain the animal. If you have a lock up like in the sample below where we see high iron and sulphur, which can lock up copper (red line is what the animal needs). Using a drench with in-organic copper will have a limited effect on boosting the animal as in-organic copper can be effected by these elements. A chelate (organic element) is an element bound to an amino acid so will not be effected by any other element and is more available as it is absorbed as a protein.

Another note on this sample potassium is above need and can suppress the availability of magnesium, which is already low and aluminium locks up zinc. Using any product with high iodine with this sample would be a waste of money.

 

[neilo]

I would agree that a drenches should be used as a boost for times of need like tupping or to bring levels up then with continued supplementation to maintain the animal. If you have a lock up like in the sample below where we see high iron and sulphur, which can lock up copper (red line is what the animal needs). Using a drench with in-organic copper will have a limited effect on boosting the animal as in-organic copper can be effected by these elements. A chelate (organic element) is an element bound to an amino acid so will not be effected by any other element and is more available as it is absorbed as a protein.

Another note on this sample potassium is above need and can suppress the availability of magnesium, which is already low and aluminium locks up zinc. Using any product with high iodine with this sample would be a waste of money.
View attachment 574520

Is copper from a single dose drench (chelated or otherwise) not absorbed into the bloodstream and stored in the liver, then released slowly? Of course, in the case of copper oxide needles in a capsule, it is absorbed more gradually.

I could understand the argument for somehow making Cobalt stay in the system for longer, but the only evidence I've seen for chelates making any difference to that is sketchy, to say the least. I think a lot of us would be interested to see some independent evidence as to the efficacy and lasting effects of different types of drenches and boluses. Of course, establishing what TE's may, or may not, be needed in individual circumstances is also necessary, as you posted.

 

[Top Tip.]

I was speaking to a guy yesterday who had done trials on his flock comparing ewes bolused ,drenched and the control got nothing,they were done prelambing in March. The reason he did it was to help his niece with her PhD so it was done properly. He found that the bolused ewes weaned lambs 1.5 kgs heavier than the control and the drenched ewes lambs were also heavier than the control,so he now boluses all his ewes.

 

[Downtrodden Dad]

My lambs have been disappointing this year. Bloods tested low for cobalt ok for the other usual suspects. However the forage tested fine for cobalt? .So I'm now dosing with cobalt sulphate until they have gone and have seen an improvement but I also began feeding at the same time,
Next year I would like to try the injection.
For some reason a lot of people are experiencing the same problems this year.

 

[Al R]

I would agree that a drenches should be used as a boost for times of need like tupping or to bring levels up then with continued supplementation to maintain the animal. If you have a lock up like in the sample below where we see high iron and sulphur, which can lock up copper (red line is what the animal needs). Using a drench with in-organic copper will have a limited effect on boosting the animal as in-organic copper can be effected by these elements. A chelate (organic element) is an element bound to an amino acid so will not be effected by any other element and is more available as it is absorbed as a protein.

Another note on this sample potassium is above need and can suppress the availability of magnesium, which is already low and aluminium locks up zinc. Using any product with high iodine with this sample would be a waste of money.
View attachment 574520

Mineral lock up between to much of one stops another etc is difficult to follow in animals but having worked in arable for 10 years I'm used to this graph below, each arrow heading towards the other locks it up. Makes a complete minefield to know what to put on crops.

 

[Al R]

Have you done any trials bolusing pre tupping? Any effect on fertility?

We started bolusing 12-14 years ago with ZinCoSel, our prolificacy rose by 20% on every breed. MuleX and TexX are doing 190% and Welsh/Glamorgan's are doing 160-165%. We bolus 3-4 weeks pre tupping and 3-4 weeks pre lambing. Lambs are also done at 8weeks old.

 

[GrannyAching]

We've done all our lambs with a mayo bolus this last couple of weeks. Cost 50p and last up to six months. Any TE drench will only last a few days to a couple of weeks at best.

Is that the Allguard 4 in one lamb bolus?

 

[hillman]

Mineral lock up between to much of one stops another etc is difficult to follow in animals but having worked in arable for 10 years I'm used to this graph below, each arrow heading towards the other locks it up. Makes a complete minefield to know what to put on crops.View attachment 574760

Any possibility of a clearer picture of that mineral lock up diagram please ?

 

[Downton_shep]

Any possibility of a clearer picture of that mineral lock up diagram please ?

Just google "mineral interaction"

 

[GTB]

Is that the Allguard 4 in one lamb bolus?

Yes

 

[Green farmer]

Apologies if slightly off topic but, Was dosing ewes there today and noticed the outer end of their fleeces have a red tinge on them. anyone knew what deficiency this would be a sign of ? Got soil tested last year and only came back low on p & k's which I'm rectifying over time .

 

[Top Tip.]

Apologies if slightly off topic but, Was dosing ewes there today and noticed the outer end of their fleeces have a red tinge on them. anyone knew what deficiency this would be a sign of ? Got soil tested last year and only came back low on p & k's which I'm rectifying over time .

More a sign of the excessive rain we have been having although it can be a sign of mycotic dermatitis or wool rot

 

[jemski]

I've had trouble sourcing the boluses I want, and with tipping now 2 weeks to go i decided to just go in with a drench.... Should have been an easy job.... However, after going through 3 different drench guns I lost it a little bit.... Ended up having to put my finger over the end of the gun to refill it then get it in the ewes mouth before it all dripped out.... It ended up everywhere and took me forever!

 

[bovine]

If the ewes have decent cobalt levels one would assume their milk should contain enough cobalt for the lambs needs up until weaning surely??? Anyone know?

No. Relatively high levels in colostrum, but milk is low in cobalt.

I've had trouble sourcing the boluses I want, and with tipping now 2 weeks to go i decided to just go in with a drench....

That's a shame, it will be long gone by then.......

 

[scholland]

These are our bolus weapons of choice this year, good levels in them and a sensible size. Do them soon and pre lambing.

 

[Downton_shep]

These are our bolus weapons of choice this year, good levels in them and a sensible size. Do them soon and pre lambing. View attachment 576994View attachment 576996

We're using the same this year. Very easy to use and I didn't bother using oil on the gun.

 

[Top Tip.]

No. Relatively high levels in colostrum, but milk is low in cobalt.



That's a shame, it will be long gone by then.......

Please don't be put of drenching by this comment the trial work that I referred to earlier showed there was a significant residual effect from drenching although it was not as good as blousing it was a lot better than doing nothing.