trace element requirements in young lambs

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
I must admit I struggle with the mineral supplementation thing ---- I have places that suffer from low mineral levels and sheep that show symptoms ---particularly Cobalt deficiency
I monitor this in various ways---bloods/PM/soil & grass analysis/visual appraisal and so I am pretty sure of the problems I face
mainly Cobalt deficiency (some Se too)

So in the past i have done a small trial on a mob of 140 ewes. I bolused 1/2 the ewes and their lambs ...monitored FEC, growth and mineral status (bloods) over the next 10 weeks and found no difference between the two groups (all sheep in 1 mob in the same field ) --- in fact the untreated group had a slightly higher growth rate!

This year I have bolused ewes pre-lambing (different bolus) and will blood test lambs (but at 4 weeks they are starting to show signs---scabby ears etc)
So I am not sure where to go with it ----I know it's affecting performance on one farm
I guess I have to supplement the lambs somehow but with past results I am not that confident
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I must admit I struggle with the mineral supplementation thing ---- I have places that suffer from low mineral levels and sheep that show symptoms ---particularly Cobalt deficiency
I monitor this in various ways---bloods/PM/soil & grass analysis/visual appraisal and so I am pretty sure of the problems I face
mainly Cobalt deficiency (some Se too)

So in the past i have done a small trial on a mob of 140 ewes. I bolused 1/2 the ewes and their lambs ...monitored FEC, growth and mineral status (bloods) over the next 10 weeks and found no difference between the two groups (all sheep in 1 mob in the same field ) --- in fact the untreated group had a slightly higher growth rate!

This year I have bolused ewes pre-lambing (different bolus) and will blood test lambs (but at 4 weeks they are starting to show signs---scabby ears etc)
So I am not sure where to go with it ----I know it's affecting performance on one farm
I guess I have to supplement the lambs somehow but with past results I am not that confident

You could always drench them every weeks, when you worm them.(y)

Most drench salesman suggest dosing every few weeks is no big deal, and can't seem to grasp the concept that we try not to have sheep through the pens too often these days.

Did you bolus the lambs in your original trial, or just the ewes? If you did the lambs, I'm surprised you didn't see a significant response, where your ground was deficient. It's hardly that the untreated ones will have got anything from feed buckets or blocks.:scratchhead: If you only did the ewes, perhaps it brings into question, the salesmen's idea that the lambs get supplementation through the milk.
 

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
You could always drench them every weeks, when you worm them.(y)
Cheeky bugger :p

Did you bolus the lambs in your original trial, or just the ewes? If you did the lambs, I'm surprised you didn't see a significant response, where your ground was deficient. It's hardly that the untreated ones will have got anything from feed buckets or blocks.:scratchhead: If you only did the ewes, perhaps it brings into question, the salesmen's idea that the lambs get supplementation through the milk
Treated both ewes and lambs :confused:

So ---- confused

This year different brand of bolus on the ewes pre lambing ----and I think yet a different brand of bolus on the lambs pre weaning ?????:unsure:
 

scholland

Member
Location
ze3
Cheeky bugger[emoji14]

Treated both ewes and lambs :confused:

So ---- confused

This year different brand of bolus on the ewes pre lambing ----and I think yet a different brand of bolus on the lambs pre weaning ?????:unsure:
Would you try smartshot in your trial?
Heard of an on farm trial where various different mineral supplements were given, results were gathered on dlwg. Smartshot for the lambs came out top.
 
Ok if you insist. But I suspect I'll be wasting my time.



So yes I think my analysis of your summary was fair and balanced:)
No:scratchhead:........Chuck out some salt licks at a fiver apiece and stop frigging about....job done. You're trying to be far too clever for you own good (as usual with your sort!;):ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:)

edit: that's not a reasoned argument!..... Try again lad:ROFLMAO:!!!
 
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Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
No:scratchhead:........Chuck out some salt licks at a fiver apiece and stop frigging about....job done. You're trying to be far too clever for you own good (as usual with your sort!;):ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:)

edit: that's not a reasoned argument!..... Try again lad:ROFLMAO:!!!
My post was most definitely a reasoned argument of why yours wasn't :D
I'm actually quite open to reasoned argument of how to approach trace element deficiency, but 'you'll probably kill them' most definitely isn't a reasoned argument.

And badgers to you
 

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
That was my oblique way of saying how easy they were to use not giving you more work @Tim W. 10 - 20 kg lambs a bit wiggly but gun is smaller than it looks and the boluses didn't cause any of them to looked too shocked! All I need now is a nice little bridge for them to trot up so they are the right height.

I know they are easy to use --- but as detailed they didn't make any difference in performance
 
@Tim W , I was really replying to the stuff on Mayo from before TBH, however.....

I know they are easy to use --- but as detailed they didn't make any difference in performance

Understood. I took on board what you said and it's something I'll keep in mind. I don't think I've fully investigated the whole mineral side of things on this farm and I'm changing way too many things to be objective at the present so low bloods and something not quite right with lamb growth is still where I'm working. However, just discovered I have a cocci problem which I only picked up through doing my own fecs - so sampling more often - confirmed by vet. So this is another factor to take into account if I ever get it right I'll be giving @Cab-over Pete a run for his money.
 
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Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
@Tim W , I was really replying to the stuff on Mayo from before TBH, however.....



Understood. I took on board what you said and it's something I'll keep in mind. I don't think I've fully investigated the whole mineral side of things on this farm and I'm changing way too many things to be objective at the present so low bloods and something not quite right with lamb growth is still where I'm working. However, just discovered I have a cocci problem which I only picked up through doing my own fecs - so sampling more often - confirmed by vet. So this is another factor to take into account if I ever get it right I'll be giving @Cab-over Pete a run for his money.

I have to try something with the lambs this time around to break the cycle ----options include;
1) Stop keeping sheep on this farm
2) Adjust soil /mineral balance
3) Supplement lambs

#3 is the most likely option at the moment ----will check out the new Mayo 6 month lamb finisher bolus amongst other options ---may even run a couple or 3 groups together and trial results?
 

scholland

Member
Location
ze3
I have to try something with the lambs this time around to break the cycle ----options include;
1) Stop keeping sheep on this farm
2) Adjust soil /mineral balance
3) Supplement lambs

#3 is the most likely option at the moment ----will check out the new Mayo 6 month lamb finisher bolus amongst other options ---may even run a couple or 3 groups together and trial results?
I hope to try sureshot on half our lambs where cobalt is the main problem. Other half of the lambs will need copper to so probably do them with a drench then a micro bolus timed to run out as we sell them.
 
I have to try something with the lambs this time around to break the cycle ----options include;
1) Stop keeping sheep on this farm
2) Adjust soil /mineral balance
3) Supplement lambs

#3 is the most likely option at the moment ----will check out the new Mayo 6 month lamb finisher bolus amongst other options ---may even run a couple or 3 groups together and trial results?

If only there was an easy (cheap) test, with less than 50 sheep it's hard to justify more than the most basic blood testing - "this year my bloods show low selenium and cobalt so I'll bolus from now on because I know there's something not quite right with my lambs from about 10 weeks onwards and that my ewes responded to the Tuppy Tubs with much better conception to first service".

Anyway @Tim W - deviating massively - if you are going to do individual ewe worm counts how many do you do across the season for each ewe and what timing?
 

ford4000

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
north Wales
I hope to try sureshot on half our lambs where cobalt is the main problem. Other half of the lambs will need copper to so probably do them with a drench then a micro bolus timed to run out as we sell them.
I was going to smartshot half the lambs as a trial, till I found it only comes in packs large enough to do a thousand lambs! [emoji1]
So most of the fattening lambs have been done with it. ...sold first lambs 10-14 days earlier than usual but can't say if it's the smartshot that deserves the credit
 

JD-Kid

Member
thing with salt blocks and licks is it's a 1/2 arsed system and most don't have any were near what the animals need people see a bit of a lift like high min worm drenchs a small lift and mainly short lived
 

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