Tractor design for no-till

Matt L

Member
Trade
Location
Suffolk
The 12m avatar has the same number of coulters as an 8m machine. It weighs 2.75t more and holds 500l more in the hopper but that’s all.
That’s why it can be pulled on low horsepower compared to traditional 12m drills.
 

Daniel

Member
I’ve seen a huge amount of positive press releases for things like the Small Robot Company, and a lot of farmers who regard themselves as industry leaders and, dare I use the dread word, ‘progressive’ are lining up to pontificate about it and be photographed with it.

But has anyone seen any evidence that the cute little thing actually works?
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
The 12m avatar has the same number of coulters as an 8m machine. It weighs 2.75t more and holds 500l more in the hopper but that’s all.
That’s why it can be pulled on low horsepower compared to traditional 12m drills.

Whats the row spacing of a 12m Avatar?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I’ve seen a huge amount of positive press releases for things like the Small Robot Company, and a lot of farmers who regard themselves as industry leaders and, dare I use the dread word, ‘progressive’ are lining up to pontificate about it and be photographed with it.

But has anyone seen any evidence that the cute little thing actually works?

It’s a fair way off doing much useful / commercially viable yet

Has to start somewhere though
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62

Only like pulling a normal 6m drill with a big hopper then - have you experimented with different row widths to decide on 25cm? Seems very wide - bag in the day 7" was the norm, which became 5" - crops I've seen on 10" let plenty light in, but to me at least, if you can see the ground at T2 its a bit thin and risks bg appearing nearly as much as a 20" beet row, even if yields are unaffected
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Only like pulling a normal 6m drill with a big hopper then - have you experimented with different row widths to decide on 25cm? Seems very wide - bag in the day 7" was the norm, which became 5" - crops I've seen on 10" let plenty light in, but to me at least, if you can see the ground at T2 its a bit thin and risks bg appearing nearly as much as a 20" beet row, even if yields are unaffected

If comparing to a 750a which is what it’s replacing here it’s the same number of coulters as would be on s 8m (is such a machine existed)

A 724 (240hp) was ott for the 6m jd really, 200 would have coped, only reason we have 724’s rather than 720’s is softer depreciation curve for the more popular model and the power is useful on other jobs like the sprayer and when we do cultivate occasionally

Our other existing drill the ULD converted Horsch CO 6 is on 25cm spacing and it seems to be no detriment

Highest wheat yield we ever saw here was after a seedhawk Demo about 12 years ago and that was on 30cm iirc !

If we had grassweed issues the wide rows would concern me but all is good on that front
 

brentnz

Member
Location
New Zealand
If comparing to a 750a which is what it’s replacing here it’s the same number of coulters as would be on s 8m (is such a machine existed)

A 724 (240hp) was ott for the 6m jd really, 200 would have coped, only reason we have 724’s rather than 720’s is softer depreciation curve for the more popular model and the power is useful on other jobs like the sprayer and when we do cultivate occasionally

Our other existing drill the ULD converted Horsch CO 6 is on 25cm spacing and it seems to be no detriment

Highest wheat yield we ever saw here was after a seedhawk Demo about 12 years ago and that was on 30cm iirc !

If we had grassweed issues the wide rows would concern me but all is good on that front
I think the weight of the drill when full is going to be more of a challenge than anything.

Out of curiosity what do you think is the minimum hp you could get away with on your previous 6m 750a? Flat to gently rolling contour
 
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Richard Smyth

Member
Arable Farmer
I used to pull a 12 meter tyne drill with 220 hp and it did it easily. Using 270 hp now and it’s rare the engine revs over 1300 rpm. A disk drill be no problem with 240 hp.

I know where there is a 12 meter Amazone condor being pulled with 175hp. I also know of people who think they need 460hp jd arctic tractor dialled all round to pull the same size drill as mine.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've got an old friend coming down to attend the Groundswell Show (well, he's a friend who's old, I haven't known him that long...) and he's keen to investigate how tractors could be designed with no-till farming in mind. He designed and built the Tinkabi tractor in Swaziland, which was basically a frame the size of a double bed with a wheel at each corner and a 15kW diesel engine powering a hydraulic pump which fed two hydrostatic drives on two of the wheels. I might have the terminology wrong, but it is a wonderfully simple design and very cheap to buy and run. No brakes, you just pull the lever back and the oil slows it, reverses the tractor or whatever. Excellent machine for developing countries. Plenty of room for the whole family on board, very versatile.

He's got someone from Ghana coming to Groundswell as well, they are looking at making them there and helping the Ghanaian farmers do more. What he and I are wondering is: how to best fit this into a no-till system? Get the weight of the seed over the wheels to help traction? Avoid power hungry attachments, like fans to blow seed (gravity is much easier and quieter) etc?

Any thoughts?
I like the idea of a simple box drill like the Duncan or Aitchison, with a disc coulter setup under the tractor, as per a large ride-on mower, or a small grader

Seed hopper at rear, 50hp, weight under 2 tonnes

Any old fergie/major type tractor would easily handle it,,,, rather than use a heavy drill for downpressure it makes sense to use the weight of the tractor itself and have minimal total weight.
I can't see why the drill need weigh more than 600kg in this case.

Crimper roller on the front and you have a turn-key notill seeder.
 

martian

DD Moderator
BASE UK Member
Location
N Herts
I like the idea of a simple box drill like the Duncan or Aitchison, with a disc coulter setup under the tractor, as per a large ride-on mower, or a small grader

Seed hopper at rear, 50hp, weight under 2 tonnes

Any old fergie/major type tractor would easily handle it,,,, rather than use a heavy drill for downpressure it makes sense to use the weight of the tractor itself and have minimal total weight.
I can't see why the drill need weigh more than 600kg in this case.

Crimper roller on the front and you have a turn-key notill seeder.
Perfect!
I've got a picture in my head of a self-propelled no-till drill built by a Swiss farmer, really low centre of gravity for planting on the side of the Alps. Can't find it now.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Perfect!
I've got a picture in my head of a self-propelled no-till drill built by a Swiss farmer, really low centre of gravity for planting on the side of the Alps. Can't find it now.
For small-scale use you could probably just about spread a standard older tractor wide enough to match a 2.7m-ish drill?

It's half the reason I have bought my Dad's old Nuffield, one day I'm going to do roughly as described.
Air seed hopper on rear links, crimper on the front, 16-run drill underneath.
Roughly 3 tonnes.
 

clbarclay

Member
Location
Worcestershire
Curiously I am considering buying a JD 7600, not specifically for pulling the drills though, my JD 6600 does that. Neither are high power to weight ratio tractors mind, but 7600 looks reasonable value for third tractor to pull a mole plough and do general duties like running the drier.

There have been many interesting concepts and the conventional tractor design has it's of flaws, but generally alternative tractor ideas seem to be too specialised to go mainstream. I would like to have a second Chaviot to carry the fert spreader, but justifying another single use self propelled vehicle is the main issue there (Aside from discussions on the use of synthetic fertiliser).
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think the weight of the drill when full is going to be more of a challenge than anything.

Out of curiosity what do you think is the minimum hp you could get away with on your previous 6m 750a? Flat to gently rolling contour

We pulled the 750a with a jd 6930 once and it did cope

I think 200hp would be plenty on a 6m 750a
 
With notill the drill tractor needs to be able to do fertiliser and corn carting
Or it does so few hour it would become uneconomic
The optimum drill slot is 7 to 10 days for any crop
So around 30 days to allow for weather issues 300 to 400 hours on a mixed soil type
On a heavier farm less hours available without taking too much risk

The problem with modern tractors is that maintenance costs have escalated and cannot be done on farm minor problems can cost £1000 or more
The 1980s tractor could do 300 hours per year for 30 years with minor problems costing very little to sort
 
I like the idea of a simple box drill like the Duncan or Aitchison, with a disc coulter setup under the tractor, as per a large ride-on mower, or a small grader

Seed hopper at rear, 50hp, weight under 2 tonnes

Any old fergie/major type tractor would easily handle it,,,, rather than use a heavy drill for downpressure it makes sense to use the weight of the tractor itself and have minimal total weight.
I can't see why the drill need weigh more than 600kg in this case.

Crimper roller on the front and you have a turn-key notill seeder.
Great idea with the crimper roller on front .. twin box, gravity feed either of the above drills on the rear. What about using a 360 mini digger as the skid tractor ?
The steel tracks would last forever also do a bit of crimping & very lgp!
Could easily be set up to gps & automatic drive. Slow maybe but deliberate & suit precision planting too just switch the planter ?
 

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