Tractor replacement policy.

[thesilentone]

That’s all very well but one bearing preload a touch out and the next thing the whole lots apart again.. maybe this guys an expert, but I never have real confidence in a rebuilt assembly.. it’s very rarely clean as the factory environment and often seals and bearings are slightly damaged getting fitted. I really wish tractors were like lorry’s with fully modular components that could be sent away to specialists.

What makes you think everything is done perfectly when a new tractor is put together on an assembly line ? Id' much rather have a hand build tractor by an expert.

 

[seedman stains]

Hand built by an expert assembler or handbuilt by an expert bodger?

 

[thesilentone]

Hand built by an expert assembler or handbuilt by an expert bodger?

Bodgers don't spend £15k...

 

[Lincsman]

A friend has just fully refurbished his 7 year old 9000 hour CNH tractor. He literally stripped it, cab off, tractor split in half and done loads to it. New vario gearbox, hydraulic pump and all pipes, pto system, full engine rebuild, new turbo, inter cooler etc. Total cost £15,000 in parts and he did all the work himself as he used to be a CNH fitter. I asked him why? His reply was the tractors worth £25,000 to sell so for £15,000 where can I buy another tractor that I know will do another 9000 hours? I can see the logic in this approach.

What was wrong with it when he started?

 

[Fendtbro]

That doesn’t mean much.. you could easily spend 40k on parts to refurbish a modern machine. I don’t really use paid mechanics but I am shocked almost every time I go in the dealers workshops. Hoses and pipes left unsealed, grit blowing everywhere. Filling jugs with dirt in them. Main Massey mech told me as long as it works and doesn’t leak then out the door it goes. He laughs at me and said we can’t charge the customers for all this cleaning parts. Reckons it’s all self cleaning through the machines filters. I saw a big fendt with front end dumped outside at a main dealer, the intercooler Lower hose was filling up with rain and dirt and that’s not really possible to clean out. Dirt just straight back into a 20k engine. The modern factory’s will be immaculate, even the best rebuilders will probably have some contamination. Average ones will be miles of the mark.

 

[D14]

What was wrong with it when he started?

The cvx box was on its way out so he decided to repair that then while it was in pieces he decided to overhaul it completely. Turned it around in a month whilst farming.

 

[fiatf130]

Unless he's rough as then there is no way that the engine needed overhauled at those hours!

 

[dave mountain]

That doesn’t mean much.. you could easily spend 40k on parts to refurbish a modern machine. I don’t really use paid mechanics but I am shocked almost every time I go in the dealers workshops. Hoses and pipes left unsealed, grit blowing everywhere. Filling jugs with dirt in them. Main Massey mech told me as long as it works and doesn’t leak then out the door it goes. He laughs at me and said we can’t charge the customers for all this cleaning parts. Reckons it’s all self cleaning through the machines filters. I saw a big fendt with front end dumped outside at a main dealer, the intercooler Lower hose was filling up with rain and dirt and that’s not really possible to clean out. Dirt just straight back into a 20k engine. The modern factory’s will be immaculate, even the best rebuilders will probably have some contamination. Average ones will be miles of the mark.

is a 2013 tractor with vario not a modern machine? I think somebody refurbishing there own tractor is likely to be much more careful with how they do it than any dealer/mechanic they could use. Bearing in mind the dust/weather tractors work in for 1000s of hours, and the vast amounts and varying qualities of oils different people use in them, i think a tiny amount of contamination from a carefully rebuilt tractor vs a factory built one would have a negligible affect on the tractors life, after all thats what the filters are there for.

 

[kiwi pom]

A friend has just fully refurbished his 7 year old 9000 hour CNH tractor. He literally stripped it, cab off, tractor split in half and done loads to it. New vario gearbox, hydraulic pump and all pipes, pto system, full engine rebuild, new turbo, inter cooler etc. Total cost £15,000 in parts and he did all the work himself as he used to be a CNH fitter. I asked him why? His reply was the tractors worth £25,000 to sell so for £15,000 where can I buy another tractor that I know will do another 9000 hours? I can see the logic in this approach.

A milk processor here did that with some of their tankers a few years ago. Good idea in theory but when they got started they didn't know where to stop.
Engine, transmission, rear ends, new wiring looms, even something like a new seat adds up. Costs got out of hand and were getting close to new money.
They ran ok once done and didn't give too many problems but they were still old trucks.
They did have considerable more than 9000 hours on them though.

 

[Clive]

A friend has just fully refurbished his 7 year old 9000 hour CNH tractor. He literally stripped it, cab off, tractor split in half and done loads to it. New vario gearbox, hydraulic pump and all pipes, pto system, full engine rebuild, new turbo, inter cooler etc. Total cost £15,000 in parts and he did all the work himself as he used to be a CNH fitter. I asked him why? His reply was the tractors worth £25,000 to sell so for £15,000 where can I buy another tractor that I know will do another 9000 hours? I can see the logic in this approach.

i would be pretty upset if i couldn’t get 10 years / 10000hrs out of a tractor without such msjor overhaul needing doing

look after them and service properly and a modern tractor should be good for 20k hrs really

our oldest 724 is 7 yrs old now and needs nothing doing, performs as well as the other which is just 1 year old now

 

[Cowabunga]

That’s all very well but one bearing preload a touch out and the next thing the whole lots apart again.. maybe this guys an expert, but I never have real confidence in a rebuilt assembly.. it’s very rarely clean as the factory environment and often seals and bearings are slightly damaged getting fitted. I really wish tractors were like lorry’s with fully modular components that could be sent away to specialists.

Surely that's what the bod who rebuilt the Fendt above did. The CVT unit comes as an assembled unit that just drops into the housing. He didn't service the hydraulic pump, he changed them for new. He rebuilt the engine, which is not rocket-science, but he could have fitted a service exchange if he felt the engine rebuild was too daunting for him.

 

[Cowabunga]

What makes you think everything is done perfectly when a new tractor is put together on an assembly line ? Id' much rather have a hand build tractor by an expert.

Fair point. I find that new tractors are a hassle to adapt and modify to my needs after delivery and, over the years, have needed a couple of visits from the dealer while under warranty before they settle down for a few years of reliable service. I certainly never believe the memory of people that claim that they have never touched hard working tractors with a spanner other than for routine servicing, for many years at a time. Yes, you can get very reliable tractors but there will always be issues that crop up from time to time even with the best of them.

 

[kiwi pom]

i would be pretty upset if i couldn’t get 10 years / 10000hrs out of a tractor without such msjor overhaul needing doing

look after them and service properly and a modern tractor should be good for 20k hrs really

our oldest 724 is 7 yrs old now and needs nothing doing, performs as well as the other which is just 1 year old now

I think the idea is you're assessing and replacing worn components not fixing damage from failures. Better to replace the brakes before they break up and contaminate the rear end etc.
Plus you take it out of service in a quiet time and do the work rather than risking downtime. Knowing what to replace and what to leave is where the skill comes in. Done right he should be good for the same again from his machine with limited down time.

 

[Fendtbro]

is a 2013 tractor with vario not a modern machine? I think somebody refurbishing there own tractor is likely to be much more careful with how they do it than any dealer/mechanic they could use. Bearing in mind the dust/weather tractors work in for 1000s of hours, and the vast amounts and varying qualities of oils different people use in them, i think a tiny amount of contamination from a carefully rebuilt tractor vs a factory built one would have a negligible affect on the tractors life, after all thats what the filters are there for.

Yes, you would think an owner operator would be careful as possible.. I have witnessed a main dealer mechanic pour really gritty oil out of a jug straight into a brand new premium machines hyd tank.. that will go straight to the pump for one trip through the system before getting caught by the return filter. It’s this behaviour that sets the failures off, maybe 5000 hours later.. rear quick release coupler are the worst offender, I Usually carry a tin of brake cleaner about for cleaning them, who else does?

 

[Fendtbro]

Surely that's what the bod who rebuilt the Fendt above did. The CVT unit comes as an assembled unit that just drops into the housing. He didn't service the hydraulic pump, he changed them for new. He rebuilt the engine, which is not rocket-science, but he could have fitted a service exchange if he felt the engine rebuild was too daunting for him.

I could be wrong but is it possible to change parts on a cvx, unlike a vario.. As for engines, the only one I sent away to a supposed specialist was a Deutz air cooled. It lies on its side in the fendt so the man fitted a combine sump for the test run down there. He then refitted the fendt’s own sump and sent it back up. He took no care to line up the bell housing face so I had to take the sump off again, and found the same 3 summer months worth of grit and hen feathers still stuck in there as when I sent it off!! He hadn’t even attempted to wipe it off, never mind a degrease.. nobody touches anything of mine from now on...

 

[thesilentone]

i would be pretty upset if i couldn’t get 10 years / 10000hrs out of a tractor without such msjor overhaul needing doing

look after them and service properly and a modern tractor should be good for 20k hrs really

our oldest 724 is 7 yrs old now and needs nothing doing, performs as well as the other which is just 1 year old now

Correct, however I wonder if all farmers life's/work schemes are in-tune with modern kit. Particularly stock farmers lives are dictated by habit and the clock (especially dairy farms) and this agenda does not generally have service and repairs on it. In addition there is nothing better than cow sxxt to devalue a product. Arable farm tractors do more hours, and in general are better maintained as their is a window of time that allows for this.

The other day I witnessed a tractor pulling a side-spreader, the tractor was physically bigger than the spreader, how ridiculous have we got. I've seen the same on several occasions pulling stock trailers.

We seem to have gone power daft, as well as bells and knobs, the majority of which never get used.

Unless you use a product for what is was designed for, problems will arise.

For many, tractors have become a ' badge of office ' as opposed to a tool to do a job.

How many actually do a carbon audit to see how they perform against their peers, or even take it seriously ?

Compare this to the construction trade, if an owner buys a 20T excavator, his prime interest is how much it will shift an hour, how much fuel will it drink, and how good the back-up and support is.

A combine is possibly the most expensive general piece of kit bought, and usually does the least hours. I am yet to see one with a pulley on driving a saw-bench during the winter months....................

 

[thesilentone]

Amazing what you can do with a few hours in the workshop and a lick of paint...

 

[D14]

Unless he's rough as then there is no way that the engine needed overhauled at those hours!

It didn't if you read what I posted!. He put it in his workshop for the gearbox and whilst doing that decided to overhaul the rest of the tractor because he'd got the time and decided to keep it for another 9000 hours instead of trading it in. The tractor was not actually broken but he knew their were issues looming with the gearbox because as mentioned he's an ex cnh mechanic.

 

[fiatf130]

It didn't if you read what I posted!. He put it in his workshop for the gearbox and whilst doing that decided to overhaul the rest of the tractor because he'd got the time and decided to keep it for another 9000 hours instead of trading it in. The tractor was not actually broken but he knew their were issues looming with the gearbox because as mentioned he's an ex cnh mechanic.

I did read what you said and you said he did a full engine rebuild and I said unless he is rough it wouldn't need an engine rebuild at those hours! You have just said it didn't need it so why would you waste the money doing it when it would be good for at least double the amount of hours before being touched?! I could understand if it was a powerstar engine getting the head overhauled at those hours as they are known to fail but not the nef engines!

 

[D14]

I did read what you said and you said he did a full engine rebuild and I said unless he is rough it wouldn't need an engine rebuild at those hours! You have just said it didn't need it so why would you waste the money doing it when it would be good for at least double the amount of hours before being touched?! I could understand if it was a powerstar engine getting the head overhauled at those hours as they are known to fail but not the nef engines!

Imagine this. You are an ex CNH mechanic and you have your tractor in pieces to do the gearbox, which he did himself completely. It was not service exchanged or sent away. Whilst your tractor is in the workshop and with the knowledge you have of the brand and you have the time available (it was during covid lockdown), you think I might as well overhaul this tractor completely so I have another 9000 trouble free hours because £15,000 on parts is far cheaper than trading it in for something newer but is an unknown.
Seriously this forum is full of people that make far too many assumptions.