Trailed vs Self Propelled Sprayer

its without doubt the future and lack of it on currently available machines is one of the things that has been holding back my decision to change

would love to see it on the demo machine - is it working near us anytime soon ?

I agree with this. Having read this very useful webpage, http://sprayers101.com/pulse-width-modulation-2/, I can see that these will be necessary for systems that use sensors and clever computer recognition to spot spray weeds, variably apply fert on a micro-scale.
 

Richard Smyth

Member
Arable Farmer
These pwm sprayer setups have been available for quite a while here on case patriot machines. I don’t think the uptake is that high. Certainly no one is going to buy a case just because it has aim command on it.
I only know of 1 machine in the area. Which I work along side of quite often.

My personal opinion is that the pwm machine does not get quite as good coverage leading to slower dying of weeds than what my conventional machine does with twin line at 25 cm spacing.

Don’t get me wrong it is excellent tech and looks cool watching it spray but the initial cost and ongoing running costs mean t is not a system I want
 
These pwm sprayer setups have been available for quite a while here on case patriot machines. I don’t think the uptake is that high. Certainly no one is going to buy a case just because it has aim command on it.
I only know of 1 machine in the area. Which I work along side of quite often.

My personal opinion is that the pwm machine does not get quite as good coverage leading to slower dying of weeds than what my conventional machine does with twin line at 25 cm spacing.

Don’t get me wrong it is excellent tech and looks cool watching it spray but the initial cost and ongoing running costs mean t is not a system I want

Interesting that it's not been wildly popular. As you say I did notice in that article that some systems have been around for 15 years, albeit with some improvements.
 

Richard Smyth

Member
Arable Farmer
Interesting that it's not been wildly popular. As you say I did notice in that article that some systems have been around for 15 years, albeit with some improvements.

As usual with more development it will get more reliable but it’s big $. The case machine has pwm valves replaced too often for my liking. It’s recently had a controlling computer fail. All this stuff is $. When contracting it takes a lot to repay this investment.
I priced a raven Hawkeye system a few years ago at $35k not installed. There are a lot of hectares at $7 to pay for that
 
Very fancy nozzle holders. Probably be fine when new but question the reliability of seals and electronics after a fair few seasons of use. Would it be “sealed for life mate” - toss it in the bin when they die?

There was a bloke on here a while ago that was having all sort of issues (mostly spontaneous combustion) of his Arag seletron nozzle holders. Not PWM I know but fairly concerning given that virtually every nozzle on the sprayer had been replaced in due course, not sure they were all necessarily covered by warranty either.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
maybe its a classic case of great innovation but too soon yet and let the braves refine reliability first

my concern is that 10 years from now we wont need sprayers as we know them at all so 200k plus spent on a self prop today may not be a good idea at all as this tech will become obsolete very quickly when autonomous machines become commercial ?

not sure I can make our existing kit last 10 years though !
 
maybe its a classic case of great innovation but too soon yet and let the braves refine reliability first

my concern is that 10 years from now we wont need sprayers as we know them at all so 200k plus spent on a self prop today may not be a good idea at all as this tech will become obsolete very quickly when autonomous machines become commercial ?

not sure I can make our existing kit last 10 years though !

Does this give an advantage to the trailed sprayer? If the spraying bit of the apparatus becomes obsolete for some reason, the tractor on the front might not be and so you won't have lost as much value? But then could well be if the back end is obsolete, the front end probably will be too.

I think new tech is coming fast, but I don't think that will mean the demand for old machinery will suddenly evaporate. The geography of the demand might change a bit, but I don't see these machines becoming worthless just like that.

That said, as I've mentioned before, the book I read on holiday this year was Superforecasting. One of the points made in it was that the horizon over which people can reliably forecast is about 5 years. Most of the major changes that have fundamentally changed our lives were not foreseen well in advance (i.e. not 10 years in advance).

As you say, you can't hold on for 10 years, so you've got to do something.
 

Phil P

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North West
maybe its a classic case of great innovation but too soon yet and let the braves refine reliability first

my concern is that 10 years from now we wont need sprayers as we know them at all so 200k plus spent on a self prop today may not be a good idea at all as this tech will become obsolete very quickly when autonomous machines become commercial ?

not sure I can make our existing kit last 10 years though !
With the prices of new self propelled sprayers surely it makes more sense to refurbish/upgrade existing kit with the new tech you want as most is retrofitable, would still probably work out a lot cheaper than buying new and just cherry pic the bits you want added.
Mine will be 22 yesrs old this year:eek: (where’s that time gone!) just been through it front to back so should be good at least another 8-10 years :nailbiting:. It’s had section control added and I’ve the abilitie to run autotrack as and when needed.
What more could you ask for:)
5F62DBCD-8899-420D-8E47-40EBE7FF1015.jpeg
 

Nametab

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
With the prices of new self propelled sprayers surely it makes more sense to refurbish/upgrade existing kit with the new tech you want as most is retrofitable, would still probably work out a lot cheaper than buying new and just cherry pic the bits you want added.
Mine will be 22 yesrs old this year:eek: (where’s that time gone!) just been through it front to back so should be good at least another 8-10 years :nailbiting:. It’s had section control added and I’ve the abilitie to run autotrack as and when needed.
What more could you ask for:)
View attachment 626654

And it looks very tidy too, a credit to you!
 

Oscar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Re PWM , I think I m right in that you can t use Ai nozzles just FFans ? If that’s the case ,how do you get round Leraps and restrictions of using certain chemicals within 6/12 m of water ?
I drove Batemans demo machine a few weeks ago with PWM. It had 05 (brown) FFans, 120 ltrs/ha and 3 bar and you could drive at 6km/ hr to 16 km/ hr and it did nt move pressure/ application wise which was impressive, plus single nozzle switch on/ off plus turn compensation. However, it’s still a 05 nozzle @ 3 bar ie coarse to very coarse .
Undecided and will see how it lasts reliability wise. @Nametab
 

Nametab

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
Re PWM , I think I m right in that you can t use Ai nozzles just FFans ? If that’s the case ,how do you get round Leraps and restrictions of using certain chemicals within 6/12 m of water ?
I drove Batemans demo machine a few weeks ago with PWM. It had 05 (brown) FFans, 120 ltrs/ha and 3 bar and you could drive at 6km/ hr to 16 km/ hr and it did nt move pressure/ application wise which was impressive, plus single nozzle switch on/ off plus turn compensation. However, it’s still a 05 nozzle @ 3 bar ie coarse to very coarse .
Undecided and will see how it lasts reliability wise. @Nametab
Hi,
O5 FF are not the only jets you can use, true Ai maybe not, but can use the likes of Guardian air the Driftbeta type where the air inclusion is within the nozzle rather than a hole drawing air into the nozzle. Also you can have pre determined pressures so can at the press of a button change the pressure. Have a look at the attached, you will know as much as I do, if not more.
 

Attachments

  • PWM explained.pdf
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Re PWM , I think I m right in that you can t use Ai nozzles just FFans ? If that’s the case ,how do you get round Leraps and restrictions of using certain chemicals within 6/12 m of water ?
I drove Batemans demo machine a few weeks ago with PWM. It had 05 (brown) FFans, 120 ltrs/ha and 3 bar and you could drive at 6km/ hr to 16 km/ hr and it did nt move pressure/ application wise which was impressive, plus single nozzle switch on/ off plus turn compensation. However, it’s still a 05 nozzle @ 3 bar ie coarse to very coarse .
Undecided and will see how it lasts reliability wise. @Nametab

What did you think of the turn compensation? Did it react quickly enough round tight bends? Did it look like it was going to miss bits on the outside of the boom on a tighter turn? Any other comments on the demo? First time you've driven with the new cab?
 

Nametab

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
What did you think of the turn compensation? Did it react quickly enough round tight bends? Did it look like it was going to miss bits on the outside of the boom on a tighter turn? Any other comments on the demo? First time you've driven with the new cab?

This system is nothing new they’ve been reto firing it on to machines in north America for at least last 10 years. We have fitted it to our demo machine to evaluate its potential, so we are all learning, and of what I’ve seen of it so far it’s very impressive individual nozzle shut off, RTK turn compensation works extremely well, let’s just see how it goes
 

Mdt

Member
Arable Farmer
I have had a go in the Bateman demo with pwm, was very impressed with the setup and it will become the next must have in spraying in my opinion, sadly I think the costs will go against it to start with but hopefully it will get cheaper.
 

Richard Smyth

Member
Arable Farmer
I have had a go in the Bateman demo with pwm, was very impressed with the setup and it will become the next must have in spraying in my opinion, sadly I think the costs will go against it to start with but hopefully it will get cheaper.

The costs won’t change as these systems are not new. Been around for 10-15 years just not in the uk
 

Oscar

Member
Livestock Farmer
@Feldspar , yes first drive of new cab. It looks very wide from outside but is ok when inside however in my part of country,the mirrors will have to be tucked in to avoid damage so not much rear visibity as no back window. Will look to fit extra cameras. Drives well and much quieter.
PWR impressive and turn comp seems to work well according to application map colours on monitor. At low speeds the pulse is very obvious and looks wrong but from 12 km plus the pulse becomes hardly noticeable and at 16 km was impossible to see. Obviously going around a bend one boom side it slows pulses while the other side speeds up and you can notice it from cab. Looking at map and colours are the same both sides.
Another neat trick, got a key fob which you can use by boom outside and switch on\off individual nozzles or sections to check output etc.
Individual nozzle control was good but needs RTK for it to work best not Egnos.
The use of big nozzles such as the 05 s as above is to give you the wide speed range ie 6_16 km/hr. A 03 nozzle in same situation would only work 6_ 12 km/hr. Obviously depending on spray quality needed would determine which is the best choice ie medium or coarse.
Got 3 days in Vancouver but had a nightmare trip from Kelowna and missing bags also !!
 
For those running Horsch sprayers on a single set of wheels all year, what wheels are you using and what is the lowest pressure you can run at. I can find a Mitas VF580/85R42. Would ideally like a tall 600, but there doesn't seem to be a VF option.

Also, for those such as @Tom H, I have been advised that having the boom control with 5 sensors and articulation / levelling part way down the boom is unnecessary at 36m on Cambridgeshire fields. Would you agree?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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