Transport

[Howard150]

Oh God, here we go again! You have just turned up another poss problem Tony! I have C1E but renewal and med is every three years. However, from the silly picture on the licence, it seems that this group is for a ridged, with trailer. CE, on the other hand appears to be an Artic unit and trailer! Looking at that it would seem that C is the old class 2, and CE the old class 1.

Was a lot simpler then Harry. Up to 7.5 tons on a car licence.
Class 3 was a 4 wheeler, Class 2 was a 6 or 8 legger and class 1 was an artic. Then we got all the rollocks of the new Unified Licence, all in order to come in line with Europe. C takes over from 2 and apparently 3 but ever since the change, CE has been the old class 1, distinct by semitrailer. I think C1E applies to drawbar trailers.

When I started if you had a car licence you could drive HGV's on motorways with just a provisional entitlement whilst you were learning, provided you were supervised by a driver who had been qualified for more than 3 years.
At one time there was no requirement for HGV examiners to have actually passed a HGV test, indeed one here at Wetherby never did.
At one time you could be a 'Double L' in a HGV, drive on a provisional with provisional entitlement for a car, pass the 1 test and it covered you for both the car and the class 1
C1 came in as part of the staging process that young drivers now have to go through to get a class 1. There also used to be a young drivers scheme. Others might be better placed to comment on that than I am.

 

[Tonym]

Reading all these replies I have a question for all you experts.
I have C1+E on my license alabeit with an 8250kg train limit. Can I legally tow a trailer unladen weight 750kg unladen with a 1 tonne load total 1750kg behind my lorry weighing 6500kg including the load which is a total of 8250kg which is on the limit and the weight of the load is less than that of the towing vehicle so that is OK or am I limited to a loaded trailer weighing of less than 750kg? C1+E does say a trailer over 750kg so in my book this appears to be legal.

 

[on the headland(or fence)]

If I may add another thing worth remembering.
If you are running a lorry on a plg license and no tacho and get pulled over , never say that you sometimes win prize money. If you do you have admitted that you had a financial gain and will have a problem as you havnt used the tacho. Vosa have been active in our area near horse shows and cracking down on horse box lorries. Impounding some.

 

[arcobob]

If I may add another thing worth remembering.
If you are running a lorry on a plg license and no tacho and get pulled over , never say that you sometimes win prize money. If you do you have admitted that you had a financial gain and will have a problem as you havnt used the tacho. Vosa have been active in our area near horse shows and cracking down on horse box lorries. Impounding some.

You have hit the nail on the head . VOSA are hungry after having their budget cut and have to earn their keep. They are more powerful than the police and can hand out huge instant penalties. This was the reason I gave up my operators licence . Over 7.5 tonners now have to run a tacho for private use so the driver now comes under working hours regulations also and should log their daily activities. There are plenty of criminals on the road without demonising innocent people but they are a nasty, greedy organisation with exceptional powers enhanced by EU legislation.

 

[Howard150]

You have hit the nail on the head . VOSA are hungry after having their budget cut and have to earn their keep. They are more powerful than the police and can hand out huge instant penalties. This was the reason I gave up my operators licence . Over 7.5 tonners now have to run a tacho for private use so the driver now comes under working hours regulations also and should log their daily activities. There are plenty of criminals on the road without demonising innocent people but they are a nasty, greedy organisation with exceptional powers enhanced by EU legislation.

If I may add another thing worth remembering.
If you are running a lorry on a plg license and no tacho and get pulled over , never say that you sometimes win prize money. If you do you have admitted that you had a financial gain and will have a problem as you havnt used the tacho. Vosa have been active in our area near horse shows and cracking down on horse box lorries. Impounding some.

A few of us have been saying for years that our movement is ripe for a pull or two. How often do you see a Major or a Nuffield on a tandem Ifor trailer? Both of these weighing in at around about 2420kg which dosen't leave a lot for a plough. How many people service them regularly or keep up to the tyres? Probably won't be too long before trailers are subject to MOT's which like it or not is probably a good thing.

As far as the horse boxes go then they have been a joke with VOSA for years. Say for instance four people go to a horse show in a brand new all singing and dancing living 7500 horse box, then the greater probability is that they are overloaded before they put the pony in. A lot of them will not carry much more than a Shetland foal at best. Not wishing to be unkind but there are a lot of older horse boxes out there which are simply not fit to be on the road. VOSA do have powers to impound these vehicles and rightly so if they are not roadworthy. Let's not forget though - in the grander scheme of things you are only guilty if you get caught or have a mullock - at least this seems to be the theory a lot of people seem to work on.

 

[Roy Stokes]

. Say for instance four people go to a horse show in a brand new all singing and dancing living 7500 horse box, hen the greater probability is that they are overloaded before they put the pony in

I know what you are saying, I personally would ban them from buying Jodphurs ! although it's amazing what they can shoehorn into them ...............................................................

 

[arcobob]

I know what you are saying, I personally would ban them from buying Jodphurs ! although it's amazing what they can shoehorn into them ...............................................................

You always lower the tone Roy, or perhaps raise it

 

[arcobob]

A few of us have been saying for years that our movement is ripe for a pull or two. How often do you see a Major or a Nuffield on a tandem Ifor trailer? Both of these weighing in at around about 2420kg which dosen't leave a lot for a plough. How many people service them regularly or keep up to the tyres? Probably won't be too long before trailers are subject to MOT's which like it or not is probably a good thing.

As far as the horse boxes go then they have been a joke with VOSA for years. Say for instance four people go to a horse show in a brand new all singing and dancing living 7500 horse box, then the greater probability is that they are overloaded before they put the pony in. A lot of them will not carry much more than a Shetland foal at best. Not wishing to be unkind but there are a lot of older horse boxes out there which are simply not fit to be on the road. VOSA do have powers to impound these vehicles and rightly so if they are not roadworthy. Let's not forget though - in the grander scheme of things you are only guilty if you get caught or have a mullock - at least this seems to be the theory a lot of people seem to work on.

You are quite right on all points. I built a horsebox with living on a 7.5 ton chassis for my daughter. I was very careful how I did it and ended up with a tare weight of 6.25 tonnes. Just about enough for two people, two smallish horses and a bag of crisps. With regard to plough boys overloading I really marvel at some of their antics, coupled with bad weight distribution . Most trailers are designed to have the weight evenly distributed across the axles with centre of gravity just forward of mid point between the axles. This is difficult to achieve with a two tonne tractor at one end and a half tonne plough at the other.

 

[Howard150]

I know what you are saying, I personally would ban them from buying Jodphurs ! although it's amazing what they can shoehorn into them ...............................................................

Deja-vu just creeping in a bit here - surely not ready for all that again are you Roy - finishing the wrong way an' all that kinda crap

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

there is a guy round here has his tractor and Plough on a trailer behind an Astra van, and more than half of the others are not legal,

 

[Howard150]

there is a guy round here has his tractor and Plough on a trailer behind an Astra van, and more than half of the others are not legal,

Doubtless t'odd one among em running on cherry as well as! Same all over.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

yes that could be as well,
I run legal then I have no worries about being stopped, or having insurance voide in an accident

 

[Ley253]

If I may add another thing worth remembering.
If you are running a lorry on a plg license and no tacho and get pulled over , never say that you sometimes win prize money. If you do you have admitted that you had a financial gain and will have a problem as you havnt used the tacho. Vosa have been active in our area near horse shows and cracking down on horse box lorries. Impounding some.

I await a pull on this with interest! First, its not the truck which is earning the reward.Neither is it the load, its my skill(or lack off) in using the load. Two steps from the truck.Taking this to its logical conclusion, no truck can ever run without a taco, as at some time in its life, it has been used for hire and reward! This logic also makes my car a commercial vehicle, as I used it to go to work. The local bus, and all public transport also finds itself bracketed here!

 

[Ley253]

yes that could be as well,
I run legal then I have no worries about being stopped, or having insurance voide in an accident

Trouble is John, that "legal" varies depending on who is viewing the alleged offence! And how much its worth to him! Things that pass the test, become offences as soon as you go out of the gate!( tool box in the cab for example.) My truck is not in the best cosmetic condition, but the rest is in good order.I was pulled over nr Chester a couple of years ago, and you could see the examiner writing out the GV 9. in his mind as he approached! The grin on his face changed a little every time he crawled out from underneath, by the time he got all the way around, it had gone altogether! He did have the grace to compliment me on the mechanical condition of the old thing, and put it on some data base to make it unlikely that I would be stopped again.

 

[arcobob]

I await a pull on this with interest! First, its not the truck which is earning the reward.Neither is it the load, its my skill(or lack off) in using the load. Two steps from the truck.Taking this to its logical conclusion, no truck can ever run without a taco, as at some time in its life, it has been used for hire and reward! This logic also makes my car a commercial vehicle, as I used it to go to work. The local bus, and all public transport also finds itself bracketed here!

If you are an athlete and you can get to a meeting in your car with the minimal amount of kit required and you win a cash prize you are using your car for hire and reward. The law is an ass and perhaps they should put a limit on prize money before any legislation kicks in. They will tell you that the law is to protect other road users. What the hell that has to do with prize money I will never know. It is cash cow and nothing else. I am sure the police would take a lenient view but I am not sure about the Gestapo.

 

[Howard150]

I await a pull on this with interest! First, its not the truck which is earning the reward.Neither is it the load, its my skill(or lack off) in using the load. Two steps from the truck.Taking this to its logical conclusion, no truck can ever run without a taco, as at some time in its life, it has been used for hire and reward! This logic also makes my car a commercial vehicle, as I used it to go to work. The local bus, and all public transport also finds itself bracketed here!

Once got stopped at the Humber bridge with Disco and trailer. VOSA reckoned I needed a tacho but was within 30 miles of an operating centre. Had a pack of timber and two windbraces. He reckoned he could do nothing about the timber as it could have been for my garden fence at home. I said I was going to fit the windbraces but he said no I was not as I was too well dressed. I said that I was going three miles over the bridge to a job, would get out of the car, lift each individual brace one at a time onto a cherry picker, lift myself up and fit them in a building. The timber was for my garden fence at home! Kept me there for nearly two hrs. Everything was legal. Law is that in a 30 mile (50k) radius of base without a tachograph, you can take goods or machinery to site as long as you use them yourself. If you deliver them for someone else to use or fit, then it becomes a haulage operation and you require all the paraphernalia that goes with it.

Me being devils advocate said to him. Right - I finish on a Friday at 6.30, all drivers hours used up and having worked previous weekend. Loaded up tractor and plough and did 2 12 hour days along with 500 miles Sat and Sun going to, competing in and coming back from ploughing matches. Got home at 10 on Sunday night. How can I start at 6.30 next morning, Monday, in the same vehicle? He said "No problem - it's not up to me what you do in your spare time!"

 

[Tonym]

[

Reading all these replies I have a question for all you experts.
I have C1+E on my license alabeit with an 8250kg train limit. Can I legally tow a trailer unladen weight 750kg unladen with a 1 tonne load total 1750kg behind my lorry weighing 6500kg including the load which is a total of 8250kg which is on the limit and the weight of the load on the trailer is less than that of the towing vehicle so that is OK or am I limited to a loaded trailer weighing of less than 750kg and maximum weight on the lorry.
C1+E does say a trailer over 750kg so in my book this appears to be legal.

No answers yet? Just a question to see what is legal or not so forget the weight or the driver and his sandwiches.

 

[arcobob]

Once got stopped at the Humber bridge with Disco and trailer. VOSA reckoned I needed a tacho but was within 30 miles of an operating centre. Had a pack of timber and two windbraces. He reckoned he could do nothing about the timber as it could have been for my garden fence at home. I said I was going to fit the windbraces but he said no I was not as I was too well dressed. I said that I was going three miles over the bridge to a job, would get out of the car, lift each individual brace one at a time onto a cherry picker, lift myself up and fit them in a building. The timber was for my garden fence at home! Kept me there for nearly two hrs. Everything was legal. Law is that in a 30 mile (50k) radius of base without a tachograph, you can take goods or machinery to site as long as you use them yourself. If you deliver them for someone else to use or fit, then it becomes a haulage operation and you require all the paraphernalia that goes with it.

Me being devils advocate said to him. Right - I finish on a Friday at 6.30, all drivers hours used up and having worked previous weekend. Loaded up tractor and plough and did 2 12 hour days along with 500 miles Sat and Sun going to, competing in and coming back from ploughing matches. Got home at 10 on Sunday night. How can I start at 6.30 next morning, Monday, in the same vehicle? He said "No problem - it's not up to me what you do in your spare time!"

Exactly. It is not for the protection of others, just an excuse for them to make a nuisance of themselves. A builder can take his truck to work within the 50k radius with materials on board. He then works on site all day and drives home, quite legally without the use of a tacho. Is he less fatigued than the man who drives 100 miles to deliver goods for someone else to use ? What a load of horlocks.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

[


No answers yet? Just a question to see what is legal or not so forget the weight or the driver and his sandwiches.

as far as I know, 7.5 max on lorry, and 750kg ma on trailer

 

[Howard150]

[


No answers yet? Just a question to see what is legal or not so forget the weight or the driver and his sandwiches.

Trailer and payload 750kg gross max wt. Test after that. Not so much more than a shopping trolley is it? Driver and sandwiches inclusive of in 7500 on truck!