Triclabendozole and Fluke

Discussion in 'Livestock & Forage' started by newgeneration, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. newgeneration

    newgeneration New Member

    I'm new to the forum but really feel nows the time to post!!

    Having taken over the farm from my father in the last 2 years I have been looking at some of our routine practices and I'm starting to think we have a problem with the effectiveness of the fluke drench triclabendozole, probably due to over reliance. Dad has always used it as his drug of choice blindly thinking that there was no such thing as resistance, 'that's only wormers' was his response!
    What would the implications be if we have a problem?
    What treatment could we use? as I believe the immatures targeted by the triclabendozole are the flukes that do the damage.
    What other strategies can I use to get rid of fluke? drainage and reseeding are on the cards!!
    Also, can you get fluke in fodder crops? rape / turmips / kale?
    How long would the ground need to be fallow or rotated into crops to get rid of the resistant fluke if that is even possible?

    I am very concerned as obviously we need to control fluke as its a major problem on parts of the farm!

    Thanks for any responses.
     
  2. spin cycle

    spin cycle Member

    Location:
    north norfolk
    welcome:).....your location would be handy:)
     
    milkloss likes this.
  3. bovine

    bovine Member

    Location:
    North
    Well done for asking.

    First thing I'd advise is doing some testing to establish whether you have triclabendazole (TCBZ) resistance. If you do a pooled fluke egg count and then follow up with another after treatment (or possibly something called a copra-antigen test) we can see if TCBZ is effective on your farm.

    Are you sheep, cattle or mixed?

    It's a huge subject and I'd really advise you sitting down and sorting out a good health plan with your vet. If you tell me what species then I can give you some links for some quality reading.
     
    Alicecow, pgk, redcoo235 and 2 others like this.
  4. norfolk n sheep

    Location:
    Norfolk
    Shouldn't bother draining or reseeding just to get rid of fluke. Seen fluke on very dry farms nearby recently. You don't have much choice to kill immatures. Cloasantal used at the right time will be effective for you if you have only used triclabendazole for years
     
  5. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    Location:
    Lancaster
    Well done for taking over from the last generation, many find that the trickiest bit (myself included!) :ROFLMAO:
     
  6. newgeneration

    newgeneration New Member

    Its sheep @bovine
    I drenched with TCBZ based product mixed with wormer 'Cydectin Triclomox' but had a ewe with bottle jaw 2 weeks later did some tests through the agri merchant (though the feedback was not as helpful as i would have liked) samples came back showing signs of fluke so have now used a closantel drench on vets recommendation.

    I'm really concerned that this problem will undermine the business and having taken a leap of faith to take over its really getting to me! is there still a future in sheep with a bit of careful planning?
     
  7. bovine

    bovine Member

    Location:
    North
    What testing through a merchant could show 'signs of fluke'? There are other causes of bottle jaw.

    I strongly advise you to work closely with your vet on this.
     
  8. Can tell you're new telling @bovine that!!
     
  9. newgeneration

    newgeneration New Member

    Sorry should have been clearer!! Cydectin triclomox is a mix of tcbz and wormer, it's a recognised product!! I didn't mix it!!
    Although looking at the research there is anecdotal evidence / suggestion that these products can contribute to a problem when compared to straight tcbz!!
     
  10. newgeneration

    newgeneration New Member

    @bovine
    My vet will definitely take the lead!!
    The tests were sent off through our agri merchant to a recognised lab!! Tested three groups five weeks post drench, one week post drench and one bunch of lambs not given tcbz due to withdrawal!! All had 'some signs of fluke' was the feedback! Not really specific!! But did say to use alternative drench til next autumn one dose now closeted , one in April (another product again killing adults only) and then use tcbz next autumn but to fec / other tests before and after to see how effective it is! This was veterinary advise!! The labs veterinary advice not my vet!!!
     
  11. cheviot53

    cheviot53 Member

    Location:
    argyll
    Not used triclabendazole here for 11yrs , after continual use of combinex /fasinex , this is a very wet area with a high fluke burden in stock , using TRODAX /CLOSANTEL with both sheep and cattle at the moment works , ( always ask about livers on any primestock and cut open any deadstock ) Take samples to vet twice per year . 2 YEARS ago tried fasinex again and tests said it didn't work .
     
  12. CharcoalWally

    CharcoalWally Member

    Location:
    West of Scotland
    I think fasinex is pretty much a no go drench here on the West now. I used Combinex on bought in ewes once some years ago and it was the only time I've ever lost ewes to fluke.Fluke was confirmed by vets on PM , and I've never used it since.
     
  13. bovine

    bovine Member

    Location:
    North
    I have issues with the long acting moxidectin putting a lot of selection pressure on worms, potentially risking more rapid development of resistance. 24% of sheep in a recent Welsh study had demonstrable moxidectin resistance. It's bloody worrying.
     
    kelpiekid likes this.
  14. newgeneration

    newgeneration New Member

    With careful planning and a drench programme of products is it therefore possible to run a productive sheep flock post tcbz?
    I will also consider our grazing rotation to avoid high risk pasture at peak times and look to drain wet areas!! Thanks for the help!

    Also, just asking! Do fodder crops such as rape or turnips host fluke just like grass?
    Have been thinking of including some in our grazing plan for finishing lambs and for replacements over the winter!!
     
  15. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    I think the bit that might get @bovine 's blood boiling, is the mention of using Triclomox (or any other wormer/flukicide combination) on ewes. Ewes shouldn't need worming at any time other than around lambing (some say not even then, but I'm not convinced), when TBZ wouldn't be the best choice anyway. A combo drench for ewes in the Autumn is only increasing selection for wormer resistance.
     
    bovine likes this.
  16. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    Definitely worth trying to reduce fluke challenge by removing risk areas if you can. We had terrible trouble with fluke here in 2012. Most stock was watered by dew ponds and boggy patches round streams. I've filled most of the dew ponds, cleaned the ditches out so that the water actually runs and put a few water troughs/pipes in. We blood tested ewes that were in the riskiest blocks last November and there was no sign of fluke, so I didn't treat anything last year.
    Not possible everywhere of course, but certainly saving treatment and losses here.
     
    foxbox likes this.
  17. unlacedgecko

    unlacedgecko Member

    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Slightly off topic, but is it possible to breed sheep that are resistant/resilient to fluke?
     
  18. Problem with drenches imo .is poor a operator,animal spitting out,going down wrong place in the gut, poor knowledge of animal weight re underdosing.air bubbles and so on,.......
    Plough your field and ow forage crops - good way to temporarily improve drainage and clean those top few mm of soil.


    And be thankful that you have been given the opportunity to farm from the previous generation ;)
     
  19. newgeneration

    newgeneration New Member

    Would forage crops host the fluke life cycle same as grass in higher risk fields?

    If they reduced the fluke it would be a good way to kill two bird one stone! Reduce fluke with crop and hopefully further reduce after by draining and reseed!!
     
  20. newgeneration

    newgeneration New Member

    @bovine
    Do you have the links for the reading! I'm dealing with sheep mostly!!
    Also I definitely take on board what you say about the wormer! Don't want to get issues with that too! I'll use a straight fluker in future!!
     
    bovine likes this.

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