Triclabendozole and Fluke

Discussion in 'Livestock & Forage' started by newgeneration, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    I don't think the actual crop would make much difference, just the disruption of the fluke/snail life cycle & habitat. If they're still drinking from a boggy dew pond in the corner of the field, they could still pick up fluke there. Removing wet patches, or preventing access to them, is the only way to get rid of fluke.
    The fluke need mud snails to complete their life cycle, and mud snails need a wet habitat.
     
  2. bovine

    bovine Member

    Location:
    North
    I don't know for certain, but I expect so. The infective stage climbs as high as it can on blades of grass to get eaten. That would happen less well on other plants. Cant find any absolute proof of that. Ploughing and working the land may help it drain.

    Good man.

    Have a look here for a start:

    http://www.scops.org.uk/endoparasites-liver-fluke.html

    http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/liver-fluke-control-in-sheep.aspx

    See the attached PDF
     

    Attached Files:

    Bwcho likes this.
  3. trewern

    trewern Member

    Location:
    Cardiff
    In a case of triclabendazol resistance, how can you combat fluke??

    from my understanding TBCZ either in the form of fasinex duo or cydextin triclamox kills 99.9 percent of adult fluke and 90-99 percent of early imiture fluke lavae if administered correctly And is the only drug available that kills early stages of fluke.. Flukivor/ closantal is only effective on fluke from 7 weeks of infection at this point it may only be 50% effective and only above 90% effective 10 weeks post infection.

    So if treated with Flukivor where know resitsance to TCBZ is known. If sheep continue to graze contaminated pastures, as in some cases you cannot help as clean pasture is not available then enevitebly stock will eat lavae starting the whole cycle again. however it is not treatable untill 7-10 weeks of infection when mature flukes. Resulting in high FEC . By this point causing major damage to the liver having a massive effect on condition live weight gains Barron rate productivity etc. if she makes this winter from fluke burden she has to contend with the whole process again and again unable to treat early stages and having liver sucked of blood all her life untill it catches up and causes fatality

    I'm struggling to see a method that you can use effectively to treat fluke when resistant to TCBZ when you have no fluke free pasture available? And impovments to ground or drainage fencing etc may take years and cost thousands.

    I also understand I if resitsant to TCBZ it is the worm that is resitsant to the treatment not the sheep so in theory a sheep can be treated correctly quarantined and then moved to fluke free pastures (different Farm no known fluke) and be treated with TCBZ with full effect.
    In turn an effected sheep with a resistant strain of fluke can be bought into clean pastures with no know resitsance an then effect the ground to a resistant strain causing a resistance to TCBZ

    So prolonged use of TCBZ may not have to occur on an individual farm for resitsance to occur and more than likely to buy in a resistant strain of fluke, an fail to quarantine which will effect ground with reisatant eggs which the snail hatches a resistant lavae which the sheep eat and you can no longer treat with TCBZ and puts you into the above situation.


    Any one in here with known resistance ?

    Any help to understand is much appreciated I currently suspect resistance and undergoing vetenary recommendations along with product manufacturer investigations to confirm resistance to TCBZ
     
  4. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    That's about it as far as I know. Once you have TBZ resistance you're down to using Trodax & Closantel, and hoping you don't get a year like 2012 when there was a massive surge in fluke numbers.:(

    Did you pick Cydectin Triclomox and Fasinex Duo (both wormer/flukicide combos) just to wind @bovine up?:D
     
    bovine likes this.
  5. bovine

    bovine Member

    Location:
    North
    @trewern I have a heap of paperwork to do this evening (including my tax return) so don't have time to go into this in detail tonight.

    1. stop using bloody combination products.
    2. most people treat at pretty random times for fluke, if relying on products that only kill older stages then you may need to do them more frequently to keep on top of fluke. You also need to look at forecasts and be ahead of things, not wait for bottlejaw.
    3. you are kind of right regarding quarantine and the fact many people buy these fluke in. Also remember that rabbits, deer etc can spread fluke from farm to farm and that includes resistant ones.

    Lots of people manage well
     
  6. trewern

    trewern Member

    Location:
    Cardiff
    :banghead:
    Guess if it turns out to be the case of resistance I'm fluked

    Of corse nothing like a good old wind up lightens the mood in a crisis :banghead::wacky::wacky::p;)
    Just happens I've used them both for fluke provention (dosing for fluke) of early fluke and both have failed!!, leading to chronic fluke. Questioning the effectiveness of TCBZ investigations are ongoing for confirmation but seams to be the case of resitsance .
    I need to break the cycle in order to remove resitant worms just can't work out how without getting sheep off the farm but then potentially effecting clean ground :scratchhead:
     
  7. bovine

    bovine Member

    Location:
    North
    you can't get rid of resistant worms once they are there
     
    neilo likes this.
  8. trewern

    trewern Member

    Location:
    Cardiff
    Well I look forward to the detail probably as much as the tax man looks forward to your tax return ;)

    What other product TCBZ is a fluke only product rather than a duo ? Excuse my stupidity

    I'm always on top off my treatments vets confirmed above and beond shedule of treatment works I run shearwell farmworks and anual diary of treatments have the nidas app on my phone and watch monthly webinar forecasts and and differ treatments acordingly only thing I struggle with is to control the contaminated pasture as pretty much all the farm is wet and flukey and being sole sheep no cattle heavily reliant on all areas for gazing pretty much all year round except short housing at lambing.
     
  9. Feeding well would help as it does with a lot of ills.
    Greencrop would better feed value than grass .Even feeding Concs.:eek:..... is strategically excellent for sheep - no matter what current clever thought is on just grass.
     
  10. bovine

    bovine Member

    Location:
    North
    Fasinex
    Triclafas
    Tribex
    Endofluke
    Triclacert
     
    neilo likes this.
  11. trewern

    trewern Member

    Location:
    Cardiff
    Double Fluked in that case then. (n)I'll be resistant to closantal or abendozol in a few years if that's all you can use with sheep with livers that look like a dart boards. Flukicide bill will be :sick: productivity will be shite :banghead: chuffing sheep sometime makes you wonder :mad::(
     
  12. trewern

    trewern Member

    Location:
    Cardiff
    Here goes stupid me aging what's wrong with combos like fasinex duo and cydextin triclamox ? If doed at fluke doses ?
     
  13. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    Cheaper than any of the combo drenches too.(y)
     
  14. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    Unless the sheep actually need worming at the same time, you are uneccessarily selecting for resistance worms more. Adult sheep shouldn't need worming apart from around lambing, when TBZ wouldn't be an appropriate flukicide anyway.
     
    Man_in_black and bovine like this.
  15. GTB

    GTB Member

    Location:
    Ceredigion, wales
    We have some wet off laying land. Pretty sure there's resistance to TBZ (not scientifically proven) but Flukiver works really well there.
     
  16. scholland

    scholland Member

    Location:
    ze3
    We have one wet field that always causes fluke. Not easy to get drains improved due to rather and fibre optic main.
    Old guy that used to own it got some geese on it to eat the snails and reckon it transformed the place.
    He has got some back again this year so we will soon see!
     
    choochter likes this.
  17. They should stop selling those combos should they not?
    Not relevant to immature fluke but same combo 'problem' (but single drug ) effect on mature fluke with Albendazole etc... where you have a choice of dose which seems a bit crazy to say the least.
     
  18. dunk999

    dunk999 New Member

    I have to admit I always combo drenched in autumn but after following a lot of advice on tff this year I sampled my ewes to find I only needed to fluke them. So they received triclacert mid October. I have just resampled my flock which are in great condition and the results still show <25 worm count but fluke eggs detected, they have been on winter grazing since 1st November on good dry arable land which only run cattle in summer. They are now away to receive flukivor. Could there be some resistance to tbz in my flock or is it possible with the mild weather that they have been reinfected?
     
  19. neilo

    neilo Member

    Location:
    Montgomeryshire
    If there are fluke eggs, there are mature fluke present, so they haven't been killed by the TBZ drench for whatever reason. Not necessarily resistance though, if only a few fluke eggs, but probably is. Could there be a couple that spat the drench out?:scratchhead:

    There will still be fluke about, as its been so mild, but less likely to have picked any up on 'dry arable land' (which you've now seeded with fluke eggs;)). If it's dry there, those eggs shouldn't get to mature into infective larvae though, as shouldn't be any mud snails about.
     

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