Tupping 2017

[Ysgythan]

In the "olden days" of breeding rams (or any farm were ET isnt used) she would have gone to the ram and either died trying to lamb or gone to the vet for a cesearean. And hopefully not used for pure breeding again. Bet she will have a load of narrow pelvis daughters through ET though.
Dont see a problem so much if the breed is purely used as a terminal but texel (sorry picking on them again) cross ewes are very popular could be bad for them when any problems that develop get worse and it works its way down to the commercial flocks. Hopefully im worrying about nothing

No, you’re not worrying about nothing. Buyers need to do their research that’s all. From BASCO you can find out:

• What age an ewe was first flushed
• What progeny if any she’d had before flushing
• Is she put back to the tup to rear naturally got lambs
• have her daughters reared lambs
• What sort of EBVs her progeny have relative to their parents

You can always ask the seller about his donor choice etc. or go and see them.

 

[Ysgythan]

With the cost of ET, the aim wouldn’t be to produce terminal sire rams from that ewe, but a few ‘special’ ones to sell to other pedigree flocks for decent money, and some daughters to hopefully breed the same. The anability to lamb naturally is thus spread very quickly, without the buyers necessarily knowing, until they come to lamb any daughters of course.

The last thing we want to do is make unnecessary work for ourselves. Flushing is a way of making rapid genetic progress but also a way of quickly multiplying problems. Any genetic nasties are going to surface in a flush of a dozen or more lambs. The cost of ET means for us that it only makes sense to flush the right ewes. We’re not looking for “the one” though, we’re looking to guarantee females from our best ewes.

 

[hendrebc]

The anability to lamb naturally is thus spread very quickly, without the buyers necessarily knowing, until they come to lamb any daughters of course.

This is what worries me most with ET. Its something i know very little about but could see that this could be a problem even from the limited knowledge i had.

No, you’re not worrying about nothing. Buyers need to do their research that’s all. From BASCO you can find out:

• What age an ewe was first flushed
• What progeny if any she’d had before flushing
• Is she put back to the tup to rear naturally got lambs
• have her daughters reared lambs
• What sort of EBVs her progeny have relative to their parents

You can always ask the seller about his donor choice etc. or go and see them.

I would personally think it very important that the ewe had at least delivered a lamb/s naturally even if they had a pull. I will never forget a visit with YFC to a show cattle farm were they kept a lot of belgian blues and had a special separate white room in the shed that was kept clean and had a special cesearean crush and all those cows with stitches and/or scars up their sides. Not many of those if any were born naturally even with a puller. It left quite an impression id hate to think of sheep being bred the same way

 

[hendrebc]

The last thing we want to do is make unnecessary work for ourselves. Flushing is a way of making rapid genetic progress but also a way of quickly multiplying problems. Any genetic nasties are going to surface in a flush of a dozen or more lambs. The cost of ET means for us that it only makes sense to flush the right ewes. We’re not looking for “the one” though, we’re looking to guarantee females from our best ewes.

You sound like your doing it very sensibly as im sure a lot of others do too.

 

[Ysgythan]

You sound like your doing it very sensibly as im sure a lot of others do too.

Our aim is 100% conversion - that is every ram lamb born sold as a tup by September. It won’t ever happen of course, but if you’re not sensible you won’t get anywhere near. It’s averages of course that pay the bills, but you have to aim high.

 

[neilo]

This is what worries me most with ET. Its something i know very little about but could see that this could be a problem even from the limited knowledge i had.

I would personally think it very important that the ewe had at least delivered a lamb/s naturally even if they had a pull. I will never forget a visit with YFC to a show cattle farm were they kept a lot of belgian blues and had a special separate white room in the shed that was kept clean and had a special cesearean crush and all those cows with stitches and/or scars up their sides. Not many of those if any were born naturally even with a puller. It left quite an impression id hate to think of sheep being bred the same way

High numbers of CS do exist in a few flocks, and a reason why ET is used more extensively in some breeds. A Beltex breeder was telling me a few month sago, how he'd bought a whole flock of one woman, when he was expanding rapidly. 90% needed a CS. They didn't stay long, and he chooses to flush his few best (& natural lambing) ewes to get numbers up now.

 

[neilo]

The last thing we want to do is make unnecessary work for ourselves. Flushing is a way of making rapid genetic progress but also a way of quickly multiplying problems. Any genetic nasties are going to surface in a flush of a dozen or more lambs. The cost of ET means for us that it only makes sense to flush the right ewes. We’re not looking for “the one” though, we’re looking to guarantee females from our best ewes.

+1. I think that is most people's aim really. I certainly flush what I consider to be my best breeding ewes, with the aim of getting as many daughters from them as possible. It's near impossible to buy those types of ewes IME, however deep your pockets. If we get a superstar along the way, so much the better. To that end, I flush in October now, to get numbers rather than big, early lambs for the sales.

I have flushed bunches of 10 ewe lambs in the past. which is a great way to increase numbers, but you have to be prepared to cull those lines that subsequently prove to be not as good. You'd have to do that if you went and started a flock by buying 50 ewes at the sales too.

 

[Al R]

[QUOTE="Ysgythan, post: 4347000, member: 8724"

View attachment 588100

When did you see a Texel photo from this angle?

[/QUOTE]

I last saw a photo from that angle about 10-12 years ago before they started putting beltex through them.

 

[Joe]

Homebred fella of mine on a pampering holiday at Sheep Ireland for use in the CPT flocks, worked on the pedigree ewes this year and not sure if will have him back for work in commercial flock end of the month.

 

[hendrebc]

Picked up 2 charmoise ram lambs from @MRT today ready for my ewe lambs at the end of the month. Well pleased with them well worth the long drive. Terrible picture sorry i couldnt get them to stand still and im no photographer

 

[MRT]

View attachment 588402 Picked up 2 charmoise ram lambs from @MRT today ready for my ewe lambs at the end of the month. Well pleased with them well worth the long drive. Terrible picture sorry i couldnt get them to stand still and im no photographer

Good to see you both, remember when that one with the red spray is flying past you at head height its the one your dad chose

 

[hendrebc]

Good to see you both, remember when that one with the red spray is flying past you at head height its the one your dad chose

They were both as wild as each other when they came out of the trailer!

 

[ford4000]

Tups went out to the last 2 flocks today, charollais tup went with the last of the old halfbreds still here, and the 2 Aberfields went out to the Lleyns

 

[Razor8]

Homebred fella of mine on a pampering holiday at Sheep Ireland for use in the CPT flocks, worked on the pedigree ewes this year and not sure if will have him back for work in commercial flock end of the month.

Do you get compensated for a ram been used in a cpt flock or how does it work?

 

[Joe]

Do you get compensated for a ram been used in a cpt flock or how does it work?

Get 25 straws, TBH it's more to improve accuracies & get good linkage. Especially for me as I tend not to share Rams or AI so helps with linkage.
Guess either support recording or don't really, well behind it here and Ovigen flock as well.

 

[Al R]

26 Rams went in yesterday with everything except the new brokers and ewe lambs not with the ram yet. Within 24 hours we've had some good results, 25-27served out of 140-160 with 4 flocks and 1 flock has done 35 served out of 140!

We havnt flushed or anything, whether the ewes will slow down who knows?

Funny how the texel lot didn't react saying "I've never put beltex into my texel breeders" well how else do you get a triangular tail without using garden shears?

 

[Razor8]

Get 25 straws, TBH it's more to improve accuracies & get good linkage. Especially for me as I tend not to share Rams or AI so helps with linkage.
Guess either support recording or don't really, well behind it here and Ovigen flock as well.

Would love to get some genomic testing done on some of the ewes here

 

[spin cycle]

SOoooo.....'puppy dog' feeling well enough to draw some blood on 'bovrill' today ......so i turned him in with the ewes.....20 yards into the field and there was a little limping again

 

[Joe]

Would love to get some genomic testing done on some of the ewes here

Limited information at the moment, but hopefully it will grow over the next few years. You just reminded me never took the samples for this year, must do it and send off next time I have the ewes in.

 

[MF 135 Man]

He's in now enjoying him self.