Twins and fertility

[Whitepeak]

We've a heifer twin to bull atm that's run with the bull all summer, seen bulling before being turned out, due to be pd'd once they come inside. When it was born the cow had 2 cleanings and the vet did the pen test (well blood sample tube) and it went fully in. Vet also mentioned a blood test but we didn't bother.
When we were milking we had one calve once. It was in the fattening pen and got mixed up with some bulls we were finishing at the time. Turned into a nice cow.

 

[buffalo_soldier]

As others have said, it's the sharing of the blood supply that buggers them up. The ovaries don't develop as they should.

I just run them as normal then scan them when they fail to breed.

 

[Jdunn55]

Is that definitely true about cows not being capable of having identical twins?

I can't remember if it was in this country but I do remember seeing a wanted advert for identical twin calves from a research station who wanted them for trails.

Technically, it could be possible.
But theres never been a case documented.

 

[Jdunn55]

We've a heifer twin to bull atm that's run with the bull all summer, seen bulling before being turned out, due to be pd'd once they come inside. When it was born the cow had 2 cleanings and the vet did the pen test (well blood sample tube) and it went fully in. Vet also mentioned a blood test but we didn't bother.
When we were milking we had one calve once. It was in the fattening pen and got mixed up with some bulls we were finishing at the time. Turned into a nice cow.

Some have all the organs there but are still incapable of producing the correct levels of female hormones to enable her to get in calf.

Good luck with yours!

 

[Moorlands]

As others have said, it's the sharing of the blood supply that buggers them up. The ovaries don't develop as they should.

I just run them as normal then scan them when they fail to breed.

That’s exactly what we do as some do breed. There worth next to nowt are little twin heifer calves so just run on with all other replacements and when they fail to breed you’ve a reasonable store to sell.

 

[buffalo_soldier]

That’s exactly what we do as some do breed. There worth next to nowt are little twin heifer calves so just run on with all other replacements and when they fail to breed you’ve a reasonable store to sell.

All I do different to that is run them with the milkers and sell finished.
Probably only getting my finishing costs back though

 

[thewalrus]

All I do different to that is run them with the milkers and sell finished.
Probably only getting my finishing costs back though

but at least a cattle dealer isn’t passing them off as correct to some other farmer

 

[Spudley]

but at least a cattle dealer isn’t passing them off as correct to some other farmer

That's why I write "twin to bull" on the passport and on the mart entry form

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Blimey, avoiding Irish and Welsh cattle dealers is also a good idea then

 

[Spudley]

Blimey, avoiding Irish and Welsh cattle dealers is also a good idea then

Yeah well we had a problem once, despite my husband telling the auctioneer that the calf was no good for breeding, they never announced it and we had to take the calf back
We never keep them on as we are at our limit space-wise.

 

[organicguy]

I'd gamble she be fine

12% fertile comes to mind, I have had 2 fertile in 30 years.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

as I understand it the hormones from the male embryo cause the heifer to be infertile in nearly every case, if they arn't it probably because you cocked up and its not twins !
we always keep our twin heifer from these calvings , one calved once . I might have cocked up. Generally they go fat at 2 years looking like bullocks.

I've always puzzled about why the same thing doesn't seem to happen with sheep, or does it, but no one notices?

 

[organicguy]

I've always puzzled about why the same thing doesn't seem to happen with sheep, or does it, but no one notices?

I was told in cattle that the male produces hormones before the female and they interfere with the development of the heifer's sex organs.
It would have been a major evolutionary advantage for a species having multiple births to avoid the problem of freemartins, I guess why sheep are Ok?

 

[som farmer]

when we used to buy a lot of calves, suspect anybody selling fr hfr calves, as 'fit' to breed, very few were, those sold as twin to a bull, were worth buying, especially from block calving herds, mistakes are easy, if calving a lot at once, they would be 50/50. The other good buy, were really white dairy bulls, 10% could be blues, and the white ones, made b-all.

 

[Homesy]

Might be of interest

Twin Calves Are No Blessing

How do I check a female twin, born with a male, for fertility?

www.dtnpf.com

 

[Happy hillbily]

My vet taught me that you can rule out most using a bic pen test. We have one that has passed that test this year, but the others have all failed.

My vet also told me about the pen test. Tried it on a heifer twin, and she passed, so kept her.
Come to the pre breeding check, she was no good. So pen test is no guarantee

 

[farmer on a bike]

My vet also told me about the pen test. Tried it on a heifer twin, and she passed, so kept her.
Come to the pre breeding check, she was no good. So pen test is no guarantee

Totally agree, but if it fails pen test then it is definitely no good, so we will send on pen test fails (once they are older than 8 weeks). The rules on killing calves make it more difficult because we would previously sent them to slaughter so they were not sold on to an unsuspecting farmer. Now I will send them to market and write Free Martin on the passport. We just don’t have the need for enough beef for ourselves to keep them all.

 

[som farmer]

in a part exchange deal, we swopped a house cow, for a hol hfr, hfr had been bought, as not twin to a bull, from a very outwouldly correct farm, that should have a reputation to keep up. Hfr came bulling, served, bulling served, many times, on a vet visit, examined, freemartin, looked correct, came bulling etc, plus original, not twin to bull statement.
made a good price when sold, as a non-breeder, through the store ring, so no loss. When we used to buy calves to rear, dairy hfr calves, sold as fit to breed, very seldom did, of those sold, as twin to bull, often did, esp from large block calving herds, mistakes, dam/calf, in a block systems, can and do happen.

 

[ollie989898]

As above, the infertility comes from the presence of a male fetus in the uterus at the same time and hormones leak across the placenta. Often you will be able to see a marked difference in the calf, sometimes you won't. It is highly likely the heifer is infertile but you won't know until you try. Even so, nothing wrong with rearing her on as a freezer job if non-functional.

 

[ollie989898]

I was told in cattle that the male produces hormones before the female and they interfere with the development of the heifer's sex organs.
It would have been a major evolutionary advantage for a species having multiple births to avoid the problem of freemartins, I guess why sheep are Ok?

I guess cows aren't really ideally built for twins? How many people have seen twins born naturally and without incident vs the ratio of those that required assistance?

Sheep seem to have a multiple offspring survival tactic to try and offset the fact that where they lived originally resources would have been scarce at times, plus everything with eyes and a mouth wanted to eat them. Plus the natural law of sheep mortality having an influence.