Two positively sinister things, an ocean apart...

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
FFS…conflating today’s situation to Naziism, is crazy. This is proposed regulation and legislation, by democratically elected parliaments.

So if there's a vote in the Dail to have you tortured and shot, thats fine then is it? Its a democratic decision, you could have no complaints. How about if a country voted to throw out all the foreigners who had moved there and been granted residency? Is that acceptable? Perhaps we could vote to round up all the gays and put them in camps. I assume a vote of with a majority of one is fine by you for all these decisions?

Or could it be that some things are fundamental human rights, that are not up for being decided by mere majority votes?
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
By stopping people having access to parts of the community they are being frozen out of society, the alternative for them is to have something stuck in them that they do not want ( promoting such an abhorrent proposition is akin to condoning rape ).
I have often wondered how Hitler managed to have so much control over the population of Germany, witnessing the sheep like mentality of the general population I can now see how easy it was for him, find a minority section of the community to focus peoples hate and venom on, turn on the propaganda against them accusing them of causing all the problems in society, tag them with a label (unclean, infected, dumb, rats ), marginalise that section of society, have rules in place that only apply to them, start passing laws that only apply to that section of the community (nobody objects as the hate is now at fever pitch ) then gradually apply those laws through the general community.
"If you want the present to be different from the past, study the past"
I saw a headline yesterday with the deputy PM saying how unusual it was in getting 90% of (eligible) Aucklanders to agree on something, as they passed the 90% fully jabbed mark.
They didn't all agree though did they, they were locked down, told they couldn't leave the city and would lose their jobs if they didn't get jabbed.
Several weeks ago when the government were moving anyone with Covid and anyone suspected of having Covid into a secure facility, there was (and still is) pushback with some escaping. The head of MIQ said they were disappointed their "guests" were causing problems as it wasn't a prison.
Yes it is, if you're taken there against your will and hunted by the police if you escape, then a prison is exactly what it is.
The government and media have tricked people into thinking this is normal and acceptable behaviour and many agree with them.
I find it quite worrying.
How long before its mandatory for all children to be jabbed too?
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Just to add, I am double jabbed and even have that vaccine passport in my phone, no ones asked me for it yet though.
Most places down here don't seem bothered about you scanning in with the tracer app either.
Don't ask how I know.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
If they are overwhelmingly effective why are countries that are 70-80% vaccinated riddled with covid still? ...
You alright? This certainly doesn't seem like the Goweresque we've all come to know...

Vaccines cannot prevent people getting it, they can and do mitigate the effects of it and reduce transmission. Whatever is being seen is a shadow of what would have happened without the vaccinations. It really is that simple. (y)

Scanning across a wide spectrum of media, I see little evidence of reported angst at the prospect of compulsory vaccination?
Has there been weeping and gnashing of teeth in Austria, where really tough measures have bern introduced? No!
In Germany? No!

In fact all this whining, whinging, griping, with respect to some necessary public health protection measures, is reserved for a few over opinionated farmers, country squires and pseudo legal advisors on TFF.

Bless ‘em, but ‘it’s little that bothers them….
You seem to have had a 180 degree change in opinion. I started this thread with simple and unambiguous rejection of a 'state' dictating to individuals about control over their bodies. You 'liked' that, if not because you agree, then why?

Subsequently you've been lauding 'strong government' in Germany. Now, we all know perfectly well that had it been a British Government who advocated compulsion you'd have rejected it, claiming desperation and undemocratic actions etc. etc. So yet again, you are either being idiotically inconsistent, utterly dishonest or just doing your usual of arguing for the sake of it. Time waster...
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Vaccines cannot prevent people getting it, they can and do mitigate the effects of it and reduce transmission.

Why are over 80% of covid deaths right now in the UK people with at least one jab then? When the fully vaccinated proportion of the country is about 70%? If they reduce transmission, hospitalisations and death then the rate in the unvaccinated section of society should be a fraction of the rate in the vaccinated. Yet thats not what the stats show.

Whatever is being seen is a shadow of what would have happened without the vaccinations.
What evidence do you have for that statement? There is none, its impossible to know what would have happened if we'd vaccinated no-one as we can't go back in time and re-run the pandemic. Its a statement of faith. You assume the vaccines work, therefore what we are seeing MUST be better than what would have happened, the alternative is too traumatic to contemplate. Yet all the data on cases, hospitalisations and deaths show that the vaccines don't achieve very much at all, in the medium term. A short period of suppression of cases, serious symptoms and deaths, then either vaccine strength wanes or you get a variant that evades them, or a bit of both, and you're back to even-stevens between vaccinated and unvaccinated.
 

MRT

Member
Livestock Farmer
A short period of suppression of cases, serious symptoms and deaths, then either vaccine strength wanes or you get a variant that evades them, or a bit of both, and you're back to even-stevens between vaccinated and unvaccinated.
There may sadly be some truth in that, hence the "get your booster because the vaccines don't work as well as we thought" sales pitch. Lets hope Omicron is less pathogenic than previous variants
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Why are over 80% of covid deaths right now in the UK people with at least one jab then? When the fully vaccinated proportion of the country is about 70%? If they reduce transmission, hospitalisations and death then the rate in the unvaccinated section of society should be a fraction of the rate in the vaccinated. Yet thats not what the stats show.


What evidence do you have for that statement? There is none, its impossible to know what would have happened if we'd vaccinated no-one as we can't go back in time and re-run the pandemic. Its a statement of faith. You assume the vaccines work, therefore what we are seeing MUST be better than what would have happened, the alternative is too traumatic to contemplate. Yet all the data on cases, hospitalisations and deaths show that the vaccines don't achieve very much at all, in the medium term. A short period of suppression of cases, serious symptoms and deaths, then either vaccine strength wanes or you get a variant that evades them, or a bit of both, and you're back to even-stevens between vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Well... it's bloody obvious that the more people who are vaccinated the more likely those who vaccinations can't help much will be vaccinated; some people will be fine with no vaccination, some can't be helped at all, go figure...

As for evidence... only the history of epidemiology and vaccinations, take a squint at any decent text and then come back to us. And the rest, well, 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' just about sums it up.

You really don't seem your normal self, hope all's well up that way. :)
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Well... it's bloody obvious that the more people who are vaccinated the more likely those who vaccinations can't help much will be vaccinated; some people will be fine with no vaccination, some can't be helped at all, go figure...

You are not answering the question. If vaccines work why does that not show up in the death stats? You are basically saying that well of course the vaccines WORK, its just that they can't help some people, and the unvaccinated are all disgustingly healthy, so don't die as much, so it looks like the death rates are similar. Well its one explanation I suppose but its still just an after the event justification to try and make your prior assumption (the vaccines work of course they do!) fit the data. My explanation is just as valid - the reason the stats show more deaths among the vaccinated is because the vaccine is highly experimental and probably doesn't work other than for a very short period of about 13 weeks post 2nd jab.
As for evidence... only the history of epidemiology and vaccinations, take a squint at any decent text and then come back to us.
That'll be the textbooks filled with all the data, usage and history of spike protein vaccines I suppose. Ah, thats right, there aren't any, the covid vaccines we are using are entirely new, never used in humans before and we have no data on their long term safety or effectiveness whatsoever beyond a 3 month trial conducted by the manufacturers. And strangely enough at 3 months they terminated the trials (they were supposed to run for 6) and jabbed all the control group - I wonder why they did that? :unsure: Couldn't possibly be because they knew the effectiveness was waning fast after 3 months and needed to make sure the control group was eliminated? No the drug companies would never do that, not even with the prospect of billions, even trillions in sales stretching out forever......oh wait, thats the drug companies like Merck who invented a drug called Vioxx, that ended up killing 60 thousand of the people who took it with heart attacks, the little side effect they had hidden in the trials by statistical sleight of hand. No those sort of people would never fiddle a drug trial in order to make more money...........
 

Old Boar

Member
Location
West Wales
Do you know about the Yellow Card scheme? Not many people do, and less report a bad reaction to any drug.

The following figures are from the Government.

As of 24 November 2021, for the UK, 136,582 Yellow Cards have been reported for the COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine, 238,086 have been reported for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 19,101 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 1,280 have been reported where the brand of the vaccine was not specified.



Number of reports
Number of reports
Number of reports
Number of reports
Country
COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine
COVID-19 Vaccine/AstraZeneca
COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna
Brand unspecified
England106,282196,74415,584768
Wales6,92610,51353470
Northern Ireland2,5372,91313216
Scotland10,42316,9662,019140

It is understood that around 1 in 20 up to 1 in 50 do not report to the scheme. I did not report my reaction and I know about the scheme. So the above figures can be multiplied a number of times.

Slightly worrying...
 

Old Boar

Member
Location
West Wales
As for the abortion argument - very very few women have an abortion lightly. It is usually preceded by weeks of tears, worry and lack of support, and followed by more tears and depression after the abortion.
Women I know who have had abortions are still grieving the lost child many years later.

IT should also be pointed out that the people making the laws are by a vast majority men. Their culpability is not taken into account, but it does take two.
 

Raider112

Member
Why are over 80% of covid deaths right now in the UK people with at least one jab then? When the fully vaccinated proportion of the country is about 70%? If they reduce transmission, hospitalisations and death then the rate in the unvaccinated section of society should be a fraction of the rate in the vaccinated. Yet thats not what the stats show.


What evidence do you have for that statement? There is none, its impossible to know what would have happened if we'd vaccinated no-one as we can't go back in time and re-run the pandemic. Its a statement of faith. You assume the vaccines work, therefore what we are seeing MUST be better than what would have happened, the alternative is too traumatic to contemplate. Yet all the data on cases, hospitalisations and deaths show that the vaccines don't achieve very much at all, in the medium term. A short period of suppression of cases, serious symptoms and deaths, then either vaccine strength wanes or you get a variant that evades them, or a bit of both, and you're back to even-stevens between vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Are you sure of those facts? I'm sure the figures @JCMaloney posts from his NHS area say differently.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
I saw a headline yesterday with the deputy PM saying how unusual it was in getting 90% of (eligible) Aucklanders to agree on something, as they passed the 90% fully jabbed mark.
They didn't all agree though did they, they were locked down, told they couldn't leave the city and would lose their jobs if they didn't get jabbed.
Several weeks ago when the government were moving anyone with Covid and anyone suspected of having Covid into a secure facility, there was (and still is) pushback with some escaping. The head of MIQ said they were disappointed their "guests" were causing problems as it wasn't a prison.
Yes it is, if you're taken there against your will and hunted by the police if you escape, then a prison is exactly what it is.
The government and media have tricked people into thinking this is normal and acceptable behaviour and many agree with them.
I find it quite worrying.
How long before its mandatory for all children to be jabbed too.
One of our local fire stations has had to close as some of the fire fighters have been sacked due to them choosing not to have a jab. This government has taken the stance that it is perfectly acceptable to burn to death as opposed to contracting a virus that is 99.70 survivable. I suppose at least they now have control of the population they can pass laws under urgency furthering their Marxist agenda.
 
Just to add, I am double jabbed and even have that vaccine passport in my phone, no ones asked me for it yet though.
Most places down here don't seem bothered about you scanning in with the tracer app either.
Don't ask how I know.
Eh??? Vaccination and the so called vaccine passports are two separate issues with different agendas, the vaccine for the disease and the passport for control.
If people are blinded by the media and or government propaganda then expect some form of push back, resistance or retaliation as a minority can be right and democracy's can be wrong.
Just how popular is your current PM and how does she interact with ordinarily New Zealanders???
 
One of our local fire stations has had to close as some of the fire fighters have been sacked due to them choosing not to have a jab. This government has taken the stance that it is perfectly acceptable to burn to death as opposed to contracting a virus that is 99.70 survivable. I suppose at least they now have control of the population they can pass laws under urgency furthering their Marxist agenda.
Rushed legislation without due democratic process is almost certainly bad legislation, and potentially bad for politicians of the ruling party, allegedly.
 

stroller

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Somerset UK
Two points here. Firstly USA. That there parish, is so utterly fukkkdd, divided, irrational, insane, screwed up, gone totally sideways, it matters not what happened there. The whole shooting match, is careering downhill so fast, it’s really only a matter of time before ….. well I’d rather not think.
Secondly mandatory vaccination. I’m in favour, but in a roundabout way. I favour access to hospital health care for Covid affliction, strictly based on vaccination status. If vaccinated, come on in, we will do all we can. If not vaccinated, you wait in line until a free slot becomes available. Also care for all critical conditions for the vaccinated should be prioritised before any care for non vaccinated, Covid or otherwise.
I think they should restrict treatment for all fat people, 'cos I'm skinny
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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