Two positively sinister things, an ocean apart...

[ollie989898]

You really think those 'fact check' websites are honest arbiters of what is and what is not true?

The S1 protein of SARS-CoV-2 crosses the blood–brain barrier in mice - Nature Neuroscience

Rhea at al. show that intravenously injected, radiolabeled SARS-CoV-2 spike 1 protein crosses the mouse blood–brain barrier, likely through the mechanism of adsorptive transcytosis and is also taken up by peripheral tissues.

www.nature.com

Spike Proteins of SARS-CoV-2 Induce Pathological Changes in Molecular Delivery and Metabolic Function in the Brain Endothelial Cells

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), which causes the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), is currently infecting millions of people worldwide and is causing drastic changes in people’s lives. Recent studies have shown that neurological symptoms are a major issue for people...

www.mdpi.com

SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2

www.ahajournals.org

If you think the spike proteins are not toxic in and of themselves, what exactly is causing the documented cases of death by blood clotting post vaccination, and the multiple cases of myocarditis, especially in young men and teenage boys?

COVID vaccines and blood clots: what researchers know so far

Scientists are trying to understand why a small number of people develop a mysterious clotting disorder after receiving a COVID jab.

www.nature.com

Myocarditis after Covid-19 Vaccination in a Large Health Care Organization | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Myocarditis after Covid-19 Vaccination in a Large Health Care Organization

www.nejm.org

Even the US CDC admits its happening:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

As do the UK government:

Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination: clinical management guidance for healthcare professionals

www.gov.uk

I'm not entirely sure on your line of reasoning here.

Myocarditis-as worrying as it sounds- isn't necessarily all that dangerous- it can be induced by viral infection even by the common cold in some cases (and infection by Staph A which lives harmlessly on most people's skin). I note the article you cited reporting a rate of about 50 cases of myocarditis for every 2.5 million people vaccinated. The message being that a very small number of people may experience side effects from vaccination. This isn't really news and it has probably been the case for every vaccine ever created? I would be interested to know the rate of adverse events from routine influenza vaccines as I would hazard a guess that they occur more frequently than 50 in 2.5 million merely because they are (or certainly were) manufactured using egg protein cultures.

You cite articles that detail how spike proteins move around the body and invade cells- this isn't really news though. It's what viruses use to do their work. By vaccinating you are aiming to provide a level of immunity whereby the virus is dealt with before people become acutely ill from it.

 

[Mouser]

I'm not entirely sure on your line of reasoning here.

Myocarditis-as worrying as it sounds- isn't necessarily all that dangerous- it can be induced by viral infection even by the common cold in some cases (and infection by Staph A which lives harmlessly on most people's skin). I note the article you cited reporting a rate of about 50 cases of myocarditis for every 2.5 million people vaccinated. The message being that a very small number of people may experience side effects from vaccination. This isn't really news and it has probably been the case for every vaccine ever created? I would be interested to know the rate of adverse events from routine influenza vaccines as I would hazard a guess that they occur more frequently than 50 in 2.5 million merely because they are (or certainly were) manufactured using egg protein cultures.

You cite articles that detail how spike proteins move around the body and invade cells- this isn't really news though. It's what viruses use to do their work. By vaccinating you are aiming to provide a level of immunity whereby the virus is dealt with before people become acutely ill from it.

What about vaccinated athletes collapsing? Suppose that's not news either?

 

[ollie989898]

What about vaccinated athletes collapsing? Suppose that's not news either?

Believe me, young people and extremely fit people collapse or suffer acute issues more often than you might imagine.

 

[Muck Spreader]

What about vaccinated athletes collapsing? Suppose that's not news either?

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy or "athlete's heart", where the ventricle walls become overly thick, is particularly common in young athletes and has been for many years. But as yet there is no link to Covid vaccines. Basically its just more Anti-vaxx bullsh!t.

 

[Mouser]

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy or "athlete's heart", where the ventricle walls become overly thick, is particularly common in young athletes and has been for many years. But as yet there is no link to Covid vaccines. Basically its just more Anti-vaxx bullsh!t.

It doesn't increase 5 fold in a year for no reason though. No link to vaccine yet but no other explanation just hardly good enough.

 

[Muck Spreader]

It doesn't increase 5 fold in a year for no reason though. No link to vaccine yet but no other explanation just hardly good enough.

Thats because it hasn't increased five fold in a year, because it's invented nonsense.

 

[ollie989898]

I don't have time right this minute to explain how the mRNA vaccines work and what these spike proteins are all about but I will explain in some detail later this afternoon.

Basically, the spike proteins aren't produced and then released by your cells en masse. It is far more subtle than that. The actual virus will be churning out a lot more spike proteins anyway as the virus is replicated many many times and is literally peppered in them.

 

[Mouser]

Thats because it hasn't increased five fold in a year, because it's invented nonsense.

Oh ok, I suppose there wasn't 4 in a week there a couple of weeks ago and matt le tissier and trevor Sinclair didnt get silenced for questioning it either?

 

[Goweresque]

The virus itself will flood your body with a lot more spike proteins, that is for sure.

Not true, the CDC admit that vaccines create a higher level of spike protein than natural infection:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

Quote: Whereas there is a wide range in antibody titers in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2, completion of a primary vaccine series, especially with mRNA vaccines, typically leads to a more consistent, and higher-titer initial antibody response

The reason for a higher antibody response to vaccination over natural infection is the vaccine creates far higher spike protein levels in the body. One Israeli study found 4 times higher levels of spike protein antibodies over natural infection.

 

[ollie989898]

Not true, the CDC admit that vaccines create a higher level of spike protein than natural infection:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

Quote: Whereas there is a wide range in antibody titers in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2, completion of a primary vaccine series, especially with mRNA vaccines, typically leads to a more consistent, and higher-titer initial antibody response

The reason for a higher antibody response to vaccination over natural infection is the vaccine creates far higher spike protein levels in the body. One Israeli study found 4 times higher levels of spike protein antibodies over natural infection.

That is measuring levels of antibodies- immunoglobulins. You would expect a vaccine to generate big increases in these because you are injecting the vaccine directly into the body which is not the same way this (or many other respiratory) virus typically works.

I will explain in detail later the role of this spike protein and where it is manufactured and what happens to it.

 

[essex man]

That is measuring levels of antibodies- immunoglobulins. You would expect a vaccine to generate big increases in these because you are injecting the vaccine directly into the body which is not the same way this (or many other respiratory) virus typically works.

I will explain in detail later the role of this spike protein and where it is manufactured and what happens to it.

Exactly my point from earlier, in most people the virus doesn't enter the vascular system, it gets dealt with in the mucosa

 

[ollie989898]

Exactly my point from earlier, in most people the virus doesn't enter the vascular system, it gets dealt with in the mucosa

Yes, that is where- in an ideal world- all viruses would be dealt with. Mucus membranes produce mucus for this exact reason. Trap them in the mucus and it just gets dumped or otherwise disposed of.

 

[Danllan]

You are not answering the question. If vaccines work why does that not show up in the death stats? You are basically saying that well of course the vaccines WORK, its just that they can't help some people, and the unvaccinated are all disgustingly healthy, so don't die as much, so it looks like the death rates are similar. Well its one explanation I suppose but its still just an after the event justification to try and make your prior assumption (the vaccines work of course they do!) fit the data. My explanation is just as valid - the reason the stats show more deaths among the vaccinated is because the vaccine is highly experimental and probably doesn't work other than for a very short period of about 13 weeks post 2nd jab.

That'll be the textbooks filled with all the data, usage and history of spike protein vaccines I suppose. Ah, thats right, there aren't any, the covid vaccines we are using are entirely new, never used in humans before and we have no data on their long term safety or effectiveness whatsoever beyond a 3 month trial conducted by the manufacturers. And strangely enough at 3 months they terminated the trials (they were supposed to run for 6) and jabbed all the control group - I wonder why they did that? Couldn't possibly be because they knew the effectiveness was waning fast after 3 months and needed to make sure the control group was eliminated? No the drug companies would never do that, not even with the prospect of billions, even trillions in sales stretching out forever......oh wait, thats the drug companies like Merck who invented a drug called Vioxx, that ended up killing 60 thousand of the people who took it with heart attacks, the little side effect they had hidden in the trials by statistical sleight of hand. No those sort of people would never fiddle a drug trial in order to make more money...........

Are you really questioning the medical efficacy of vaccinations and the principle of uniformitarianism...?

 

[ollie989898]

Do you know about the Yellow Card scheme? Not many people do, and less report a bad reaction to any drug.

The following figures are from the Government.

As of 24 November 2021, for the UK, 136,582 Yellow Cards have been reported for the COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine, 238,086 have been reported for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 19,101 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 1,280 have been reported where the brand of the vaccine was not specified.

Number of reports​	Number of reports​	Number of reports​	Number of reports​
Country​	COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine​	COVID-19 Vaccine/AstraZeneca​	COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna​	Brand unspecified​
England	106,282	196,744	15,584	768
Wales	6,926	10,513	534	70
Northern Ireland	2,537	2,913	132	16
Scotland	10,423	16,966	2,019	140

It is understood that around 1 in 20 up to 1 in 50 do not report to the scheme. I did not report my reaction and I know about the scheme. So the above figures can be multiplied a number of times.

Slightly worrying...

I don't see these are cause for alarm. Adverse events could be anything.

 

[essex man]

Yes, that is where- in an ideal world- all viruses would be dealt with. Mucus membranes produce mucus for this exact reason. Trap them in the mucus and it just gets dumped or otherwise disposed of.

Mucosal Immunity in COVID-19: A Neglected but Critical Aspect of SARS-CoV-2 Infection

The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occur...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[ollie989898]

Mucosal Immunity in COVID-19: A Neglected but Critical Aspect of SARS-CoV-2 Infection

The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occur...

www.frontiersin.org

That article discusses mucosal or innate immunity and it is possible it will be exploited in future. But the dangerous part of covid is that it can harm you once it overwhelms these innate parts of the immune system.

 

[Goweresque]

Are you really questioning the medical efficacy of vaccinations and the principle of uniformitarianism...?

I have never questioned the efficacy of the concept of vaccination in principle, I'm questioning the efficacy of THESE vaccines in particular. You do know there's a difference I assume?

 

[essex man]

That article discusses mucosal or innate immunity and it is possible it will be exploited in future. But the dangerous part of covid is that it can harm you once it overwhelms these innate parts of the immune system.

The point I was making is that, for most people infected with the virus, the harmful vascular effects are avoided.
However for everyone having the jab the vascular risks are there.

 

[primmiemoo]

https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/coronavirus/vaccine/astrazenecasafety/

A high percentage of the UK population has received their vaccine, many having had their first almost a year ago. Extremely few serious side effects to the extent that side effects such as vascular effects are vanishingly rare. It really does feel as though antivaxxer propaganda is circulating to scare people given the continued, and in some cases new, questioning of efficacy and risk of vaccination.
Catching covid unvaccinated increases risks of inflammation storm, and chances are the patient will be affected by long covid afterwards.

There are any number of previously fit individuals who were not vaccinated when they caught covid who, if they haven't died, have been seriously ill.

 

[Ashtree]

The point I was making is that, for most people infected with the virus, the harmful vascular effects are avoided.
However for everyone having the jab the vascular risks are there.

You haven‘t made a single point since this thread started. Just nonsensical blather.