UBI (Universal Basic Income), a good thing - from a Conservative / Right of centre perspective.

[Danllan]

I've been against this, instinctively and on the basis of several economic principles, since I first heard of it. However...

...having thought about it for some time, I'm coming around to the idea that - despite its negative aspects, of which there are not a few - it could be a net benefit to society. Mainly because I think that it would encourage a lot of people to try private enterprise, it would encourage (or force) businesses to be more competitive and it would be a very democratic way of stimulating the economy.

That written, it galls me to think of a bunch of idle B*stards getting money for doing SFA; but life is full of situations in which one has to accept some losses to achieve a net gain. My greatest concerns are that an awful lot of money would be squirrelled away, and that if UBI were brought in and then failed to succeed, it would be very, very difficult for any government to end it.

 

[wanton dwarf]

UBI is an admission that politicians & the civil service have got no idea of what private businesses do nor how to invigorate and sustain gainful employment.

A gimmick which encourages lazy people, lazy politics and a lazy civil service. The end result may well be a decline in a work ethic and decline of civil society.

The solution is to get rid of a redundant self serving political class well beyond it's sell by date.

IMHO the civil service should have ONE main goal. To ensure money is recycled through as many UK people as possible. If tax is taken then it goes back out to UK employees working.

NOT sent to China for CO2 ridden imports, German cars or French soft cheese & wine.

 

[ollie989898]

The government should have retained sizeable shares in all the businesses that were sold off. The dividends on these could then be used to enhance the revenue from the tax take.

I do not favour paying people for nothing. I am in favour of allowing people on disability or job seekers allowance, or those who earn less than 20,000 per annum to keep everything they earn -on the books or otherwise- and remain tax free. They will only spend it anyway and are hardly living the life of riley.

Companies and in particular big business should be taxed again and again and again.

 

[Roger Perry]

The government should have retained sizeable shares in all the businesses that were sold off. The dividends on these could then be used to enhance the revenue from the tax take.

I do not favour paying people for nothing. I am in favour of allowing people on disability or job seekers allowance, or those who earn less than 20,000 per annum to keep everything they earn -on the books or otherwise- and remain tax free. They will only spend it anyway and are hardly living the life of riley.

Companies and in particular big business should be taxed again and again and again.

So, you are recommending a tax on success, again and again and again.
It should not be a huge surprise then to find that Britain is not top of the list when it comes to new start ups' or the place that entrepreneurs flock to in an attempt to make/hang onto money.

Little incentive to do anything if you are penalized for your efforts'.............go somewhere........anywhere that you will be allowed to keep the rewards of your efforts.

 

[Agrivator]

One major improvement would be to force tax evaders like a famous coffee shop to pay tax on their sales rather than on their ''adjusted'' profits. Does the sales tax in New York work fairly?

sales tax new york - Google Search

www.google.co.uk

 

[ollie989898]

So, you are recommending a tax on success, again and again and again.
It should not be a huge surprise then to find that Britain is not top of the list when it comes to new start ups' or the place that entrepreneurs flock to in an attempt to make/hang onto money.

Little incentive to do anything if you are penalized for your efforts'.............go somewhere........anywhere that you will be allowed to keep the rewards of your efforts.

Bloody right I am taxing success- these companies are making money from the citizens of this country, using it's infrastructure and human capital. How else do you expect the country to be financed?

 

[Roger Perry]

Taxed again and again and again.......................
Good luck with that.

 

[ollie989898]

Taxed again and again and again.......................
Good luck with that.

It's a concept you may be unfamiliar with since basically the USA has an entire industry of tax dodging accountants and lobbyists who keep big business from paying anything but those days are over in the UK. It is time the big names paid their share on their activities that occur on UK shores. It's bad enough with some of their business practices but they can at least pay their share like everyone else.

 

[capfits]

I've been against this, instinctively and on the basis of several economic principles, since I first heard of it. However...

...having thought about it for some time, I'm coming around to the idea that - despite its negative aspects, of which there are not a few - it could be a net benefit to society. Mainly because I think that it would encourage a lot of people to try private enterprise, it would encourage (or force) businesses to be more competitive and it would be a very democratic way of stimulating the economy.

That written, it galls me to think of a bunch of idle B*stards getting money for doing SFA; but life is full of situations in which one has to accept some losses to achieve a net gain. My greatest concerns are that an awful lot of money would be squirrelled away, and that if UBI were brought in and then failed to succeed, it would be very, very difficult for any government to end it.

Parable of Minas?
Funny thing is we could have easily done this at the time the banks were bailed out.
If the £20k per man, women and child was done then, just imagine how our economy would have been realigned?

 

[capfits]

Taxed again and again and again.......................
Good luck with that.

Man surprised you are not off to South Dakota.
I mean I have all my trusts set up there.

 

[Roger Perry]

It's a concept you may be unfamiliar with since basically the USA has an entire industry of tax dodging accountants and lobbyists who keep big business from paying anything but those days are over in the UK. It is time the big names paid their share on their activities that occur on UK shores. It's bad enough with some of their business practices but they can at least pay their share like everyone else.

Since Britain is basically a socialist minded state which regards its citizens money are "their" money you can do nothing other than go along with it in increasing demand.
I on the other hand regard the money I make as "my" money, created by my brain and my sweat, I do not dodge my tax bills.......I pay them, I do not like it when it runs to five figures on occasion but I suck it up because that's just the way it is...........I made the money I expect to pay tax.
So please, enough of this "no one pays' tax" in the USA.

 

[Roger Perry]

Man surprised you are not off to South Dakota.
I mean I have all my trusts set up there.

Hmm, South Dakota, somehow I don't think so............

 

[ollie989898]

Since Britain is basically a socialist minded state which regards its citizens money are "their" money you can do nothing other than go along with it in increasing demand.
I on the other hand regard the money I make as "my" money, created by my brain and my sweat, I do not dodge my tax bills.......I pay them, I do not like it when it runs to five figures on occasion but I suck it up because that's just the way it is...........I made the money I expect to pay tax.
So please, enough of this "no one pays' tax" in the USA.

Roger you have an extremely toxic form of capitalism at work in your country.

Yes, the UK has some socialist ways but also has some public services which need to be paid for fair and square.

I don't see why you complain at the idea of companies being taxed yet are apparently fine with paying tax yourself?

 

[wanton dwarf]

The government should have retained sizeable shares in all the businesses that were sold off. The dividends on these could then be used to enhance the revenue from the tax take.

I do not favour paying people for nothing. I am in favour of allowing people on disability or job seekers allowance, or those who earn less than 20,000 per annum to keep everything they earn -on the books or otherwise- and remain tax free. They will only spend it anyway and are hardly living the life of riley.

Companies and in particular big business should be taxed again and again and again.

IMHO everyone should pay tax and everyone should be able to see how their tax money is spent and where it is spent. In fact IMHO a guaranteed part of our tax money should be spent locally.

As regards large corporations .. that obviously won't work.

No mere mortal will ever know how much any company is making in profit. And anyone that knows accounts knows that profit is subjective to interpretation. However that is no excuse for businesses paying no tax.

For those who are dodging taxes then an alternative sales tax regime should apply .. certainly any company who is founding their business from tax havens such as Luxemburg obviously should be on such a regime.

But don't tax them out of existence.

 

[arcobob]

The government should have retained sizeable shares in all the businesses that were sold off. The dividends on these could then be used to enhance the revenue from the tax take.

I do not favour paying people for nothing. I am in favour of allowing people on disability or job seekers allowance, or those who earn less than 20,000 per annum to keep everything they earn -on the books or otherwise- and remain tax free. They will only spend it anyway and are hardly living the life of riley.

Companies and in particular big business should be taxed again and again and again.

Can`t give an unequivocal like but you are on the right track.

 

[brigadoon]

The government should have retained sizeable shares in all the businesses that were sold off. The dividends on these could then be used to enhance the revenue from the tax take.

I do not favour paying people for nothing. I am in favour of allowing people on disability or job seekers allowance, or those who earn less than 20,000 per annum to keep everything they earn -on the books or otherwise- and remain tax free. They will only spend it anyway and are hardly living the life of riley.

Companies and in particular big business should be taxed again and again and again.

A singularly short sighted and self defeating approach quite literally killing the goose that lays the golden egg

 

[ollie989898]

A singularly short sighted and self defeating approach quite literally killing the goose that lays the golden egg

Rubbish.

 

[brigadoon]

Rubbish.

On the contrary

Direct Business taxation is a drop in the bucket compared to income based and indirect taxation - every penny of which comes from business in one form or another.

Where we perhaps do agree is that businesses should not be allowed to "income shift" from the country in which business is conducted.

If you increase direct business taxation all you do is restrict business - one reason for failing high streets.

Your argument lacks logic

Total Public Revenue in the United Kingdom Central Government and Local Authority Fiscal Year 2020​
	Income and Capital Taxes​	£268 billion​
	National Insurance​	+ £143 billion​
	Indirect Taxes​	+ £345 billion​
	Fees and Charges​	+ £0 billion​
	Business and Other Revenue​	+ £53 billion​
	Total Direct Revenue​	= £811 billion​

 

[stewart]

One major improvement would be to force tax evaders like a famous coffee shop to pay tax on their sales rather than on their ''adjusted'' profits. Does the sales tax in New York work fairly?

sales tax new york - Google Search

www.google.co.uk

There is already a sales tax in the UK, it is called VAT. I do agree that companies should be taxed in the countries they operate in and where they make their profits.

 

[stewart]

The government should have retained sizeable shares in all the businesses that were sold off. The dividends on these could then be used to enhance the revenue from the tax take.

I do not favour paying people for nothing. I am in favour of allowing people on disability or job seekers allowance, or those who earn less than 20,000 per annum to keep everything they earn -on the books or otherwise- and remain tax free. They will only spend it anyway and are hardly living the life of riley.

Companies and in particular big business should be taxed again and again and again.

The government retaining shares in companies is nationalisation by stealth, I am not opposed to Nationalising public services, water, electricity, railways etc, but if it stretches to governments having a financial stake in banking etc I would rather see the competitive environment at work.

Lifting thresholds allowing those less well off to retain more of their earnings is a good idea, it does however mean taxing those at the other end of the scale at a higher rate, the money has to come from somewhere.