UK Farm Support......THE POLL!!

[caveman]

Nah. Once I've got my overseas grazing operation I'll be having far too much fun running it to bother with the internet!

Jeez.
The lengths some people go to, to avoid a "proper" job, or join in with the real world.

 

[Cowabunga]

the UK government call it a "rebate" The difference between a rebate and a subsidy really is a mute point when the end goal is the same.

They can spin it any way they like. The logic is as I explained.

Oh and by the way, the correct phrase is moot point. A moot point can be either an issue open for debate, or a matter of no practical value or importance because it's hypothetical. 'Mute' most commonly means speechless or silent. Two entirely different words/phrases and meanings, just like 'subsidy' and 'lower tax rate'.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Jeez.
The lengths some people go to, to avoid a "proper" job, or join in with the real world.

I’ve had “proper” jobs the last 15 years. I don’t recommend them.

 

[Henarar]

Nah. Once I've got my overseas grazing operation I'll be having far too much fun running it to bother with the internet!

good that will make a change

 

[brigadoon]

Nowhere does that say what you claim that we are paid out by those South of the Border, just that Scotland has a deficit... a deficit just like the rest. Our 'top up' is from UK national debt. That's not English, Welsh or Irish money...

Also, those figures are not strictly accurate. There is no revenue figures for ANY business which trades in Scotland but has its head office in England... Tesco don't do 2 books, for example. The Whisky (export) industry is also omitted from the calculations, as it is taxed at point of Export which is Felixstowe... which makes it English revenue


But, this is seriously off topic.

I rather think it does but never mind - my understanding is that the Scottish Government is not in fact allowed to run a deficit - if they are then our deficit would be approximately 4 times that of the UK as whole measured as % of GDP, so your top up is most definitley from RUK.

Corporation tax is a relatively minor contributor to the total tax take - Tesco may well not do two sets of books as you say - but their biggest contribution to goverment revenues is via thier employees in both direct and indirect taxes.

I don't know where you get your idea that Whisly is taxed at Felixstowe from - alcohol exported is duty free. Alcohol duty is collected when the alcohol leaves bonded store and only applies in the UK - the distillers pay taxes like any other company but the UK customers pay the duty at the end of the day.

 

[Sweepa]

Subs make up 87% of NI farmers incomes, how do you avoid not paying direct payments with this level of dependence? I believe England is around the 50% mark.

 

[two-cylinder]

If subsidy goes each farm should be entitled to an annual modernisation grant to boost productivity, this fixed grant of 20k to be spent on machinery/infrastructure.

 

[Doc]

14 pages of rubbish that I have no intension of starting to read.

Red.

Is NOT subsidised. It just does not have a large element of road duty applied. It has some, to acknowledge that it is sometimes used on the road, but not much.
To agree that it is subsidised is exactly like arguing that a 20% income tax payer is subsidised compared to a higher rate taxpayer. Logically if you agree that red diesel is subsidised then you must agree that all lower rates of tax are subsidies to whoever they apply.

That's the end of that. Now I can go back to ignoring this thread. Thanks for your consultation request. The invoice is in the post.

Nope.
It is a subsidy really as it only applies specifically to Ag use. Use it for non Ag purposes and you get in trouble. It’s specific to an industry, so inaccessible to everyone else.
So, I don’t follow your logic..

 

[Cowabunga]

If subsidy goes each farm should be entitled to an annual modernisation grant to boost productivity, this fixed grant of 20k to be spent on machinery/infrastructure.

£20k wouldn't buy me a new milk cooling tank let alone a slurry store. Pishing in the wind!

 

[Cowabunga]

Nope.
It is a subsidy really as it only applies specifically to Ag use. Use it for non Ag purposes and you get in trouble. It’s specific to an industry, so inaccessible to everyone else.
So, I don’t follow your logic..

You are very much mistaken. The same lower rate applies to many non-agricultural off road users and indeed a few classes of road users as well. An even lower rate with zero road duty applies to domestic and industrial kerosene and aviation fuel. Nobody has the temerity to claim that home heating or aviation are subsidised due to a lower duty than DERV.
So get your facts right.

 

[tepapa]

If subsidy goes each farm should be entitled to an annual modernisation grant to boost productivity, this fixed grant of 20k to be spent on machinery/infrastructure.

Over production isn't helping farm gate prices so why produce more to sell for less?
It all goes back to farmer mentality that we must feed the world regardless if its profitable or not.

 

[unlacedgecko]

If subsidy goes each farm should be entitled to an annual modernisation grant to boost productivity, this fixed grant of 20k to be spent on machinery/infrastructure.

Further encouraging reliance on unnecessary costly metal?

 

[Doc]

You are very much mistaken. The same lower rate applies to many non-agricultural off road users and indeed a few classes of road users as well. An even lower rate with zero road duty applies to domestic and industrial kerosene and aviation fuel. Nobody has the temerity to claim that home heating or aviation are subsidised due to a lower duty than DERV.
So get your facts right.

You are correct the subsidy also can involve construction, forestry and fisheries. Still a subsidy though to the few who receive it.
Don’t think my plumber or electrician can use it, or are you pretending it is otherwise only used for use off the public highway and therefore should be immune from road duty?

 

[brigadoon]

Nope.
It is a subsidy really as it only applies specifically to Ag use. Use it for non Ag purposes and you get in trouble. It’s specific to an industry, so inaccessible to everyone else.
So, I don’t follow your logic..

It is not specific to agricultural use, fuel duty can also be avoided altogether by many other users

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-75-fuel-for-road-vehicles#excepted-vehicles

 

[unlacedgecko]

You are correct the subsidy also can involve construction, forestry and fisheries. Still a subsidy though to the few who receive it.
Don’t think my plumber or electrician can use it, or are you pretending it is otherwise only used for use off the public highway and therefore should be immune from road duty?

Haulage fridges run on red. The prime mover must be on white though.

 

[Pasty]

I'm not getting into the argument but always found it amusing that our red and white tanks were filled from the same truck and what made the red cheaper was a cup full of dye added by the driver. I can understand why, it just seems all a bit silly.

 

[marco]

Am I the only one who was expecting a poll?

 

[digger64]

[QUOTEisn't wabunga, post: 5298830, member: 718"]You are very much mistaken. The same lower rate applies to many non-agricultural off road users and indeed a few classes of road users as well. An even lower rate with zero road duty applies to domestic and industrial kerosene and aviation fuel. Nobody has the temerity to claim that home heating or aviation are subsidised due to a lower duty than DERV.
So get your facts right.[/QUOTE]
If it isnt a subsidy what is it ? Best and fairest sub going allowing use in trucks carrying produce to would help us compete against imported stuff would be good to as I believe most would be produced and delivered here with much cheaper untaxed fuel , would cut more ice than begging for handouts

 

[caveman]

So when the Chancellor increases the duty on fuel, does he reduce the subsidy or increase the tax?

 

[unlacedgecko]

[QUOTEisn't wabunga, post: 5298830, member: 718"]You are very much mistaken. The same lower rate applies to many non-agricultural off road users and indeed a few classes of road users as well. An even lower rate with zero road duty applies to domestic and industrial kerosene and aviation fuel. Nobody has the temerity to claim that home heating or aviation are subsidised due to a lower duty than DERV.
So get your facts right.

If it isnt a subsidy what is it ? Best and fairest sub going allowing use in trucks carrying produce to would help us compete against imported stuff would be good to as I believe most would be produced and delivered here with much cheaper untaxed fuel , would cut more ice than begging for handouts[/QUOTE]

Some sectoirs if the haulage industry have campaigned for years for a similar low duty fuel.