UK Farm Support......THE POLL!!

[ollie989898]

Red diesel is not a subsidy. God alive. As others have said, it is not taxed in the same way as white diesel because the ministry recognises that red diesel has a multitude of uses in vehicles or equipment that does not operate on the roads or profit from using them directly. For this reason it is permitted to use the stuff in generators, cranes, diggers and an entire manner of machinery, not just tractors.

 

[Pasty]

Also interesting (as Parish Snow Warden) that I can't take the Bobcat out into the lanes on red to free up local folk in heavy snow because I risk prosecution and confiscation of the vehicle. So if there was a lady going into labour who needed assistance up the road or some other medical emergency and I could make a path through to the main road with my machine to reach a land ambulance, that would be illegal.

Now you would hope some common sense would come into play here but having been involved in local govt. for a while, I doubt that. Obviously I would do it anyway.

 

[ollie989898]

Also interesting (as Parish Snow Warden) that I can't take the Bobcat out into the lanes on red to free up local folk in heavy snow because I risk prosecution and confiscation of the vehicle. So if there was a lady going into labour who needed assistance up the road or some other medical emergency and I could make a path through to the main road with my machine to reach a land ambulance, that would be illegal.

Now you would hope some common sense would come into play here but having been involved in local govt. for a while, I doubt that. Obviously I would do it anyway.

What?

You can go on the roads with red diesel and move snow on your own bat or as agreed by the council. You just can't go around clearing commercial car parks on red and charging them for the service- that is clearly not in the spirit of red diesel use.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Also interesting (as Parish Snow Warden) that I can't take the Bobcat out into the lanes on red to free up local folk in heavy snow because I risk prosecution and confiscation of the vehicle. So if there was a lady going into labour who needed assistance up the road or some other medical emergency and I could make a path through to the main road with my machine to reach a land ambulance, that would be illegal.

Now you would hope some common sense would come into play here but having been involved in local govt. for a while, I doubt that. Obviously I would do it anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-13805083

I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Pasty]

What?

You can go on the roads with red diesel and move snow on your own bat or as agreed by the council. You just can't go around clearing commercial car parks on red and charging them for the service- that is clearly not in the spirit of red diesel use.

Which council and when? That is not correct. We have had long dialogue with South Hams and Devon County Council on this and none will commit to an actual answer. The law seems to say I cannot perform public deeds on red diesel.

 

[ollie989898]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-13805083

I wouldn't count on it.

So this man was supposed to use white diesel to mow the local cricket pitch? That's horticultural use.

 

[digger64]

So when the Chancellor increases the duty on fuel, does he reduce the subsidy or increase the tax?

Both but by inceaseing the tax he will lower his tax take on profits on end year accounts on businesses in profit , in case of farming with high capital allowances availiable hence low taxable profits usually , therefore it is effectively a subsidy as it benefits businesses making a loss equally so by lowering costs

 

[Pasty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-13805083

I wouldn't count on it.

There you go. I know farmers in this area did help clear lanes in March. Do you think they drained their tanks and put in white? Stupid. There where lots of thanks on social media which had to be requested to be redacted in our parish.

 

[ollie989898]

Which council and when? That is not correct. We have had long dialogue with South Hams and Devon County Council on this and none will commit to an actual answer. The law seems to say I cannot perform public deeds on red diesel.

Well I myself have pushed snow about with a JCB on red and virtually any farm I can think of with a snow plough and an agreement with the council will be running on red. They are paid a retainer I understand by the council and will deploy in bad weather to clear the local roads, all on red. It would be quite different to go around as some companies do, clearing and gritting company car parks which is clearly not an agricultural operation.

 

[Pasty]

So this man was supposed to use white diesel to mow the local cricket pitch? That's horticultural use.

Of course he is. It's a cricket pitch. It's a real shame he got done as it's no harm done but this is what it's coming to.

 

[ollie989898]

Of course he is. It's a cricket pitch. It's a real shame he got done as it's no harm done but this is what it's coming to.

I would appeal against that, the man is mowing a cricket pitch, that is horticultural use. They are wrongly interpreting the law.

 

[digger64]

If it isnt a subsidy what is it ? Best and fairest sub going allowing use in trucks carrying produce to would help us compete against imported stuff would be good to as I believe most would be produced and delivered here with much cheaper untaxed fuel , would cut more ice than begging for handouts

Some sectoirs if the haulage industry have campaigned for years for a similar low duty fuel.[/QUOTE]
Lot of hauliers not impressed when fastracs came out and no mot on trailers

 

[unlacedgecko]

So this man was supposed to use white diesel to mow the local cricket pitch? That's horticultural use.

He wasn't charging for the service, similar to your clearing of roads for free. I don't think the inspectors cared what he was supposed to do, but they were adamant he wasn't to use red diesel.

I think it's impossible to overestimate the inflexibility and vindictiveness of the clipboard welding Stasi.

 

[digger64]

So this man was supposed to use white diesel to mow the local cricket pitch? That's horticultural use.

No off road no problem

 

[Pasty]

I would appeal against that, the man is mowing a cricket pitch, that is horticultural use. They are wrongly interpreting the law.

OK. I guess, you have to argue the use of the term 'Horticulture'. I see your point on that one. Maybe a better lawyer would have tied them in knots.

Anyway. On red. I live in a steep valley. I have red in tanks but not white. My 'mule' runs on red. I store pallets of grit salt for the council. So. If I want to spread it I need a vehicle. In parts of March the only thing getting out of here was the mule. Hilux hopeless. But by taking the mule to a filling station and buying white, I am evading tax? If I just say 'Sod it' and jump in and chuck a few bags of grit up the lane (which I obviously didn't do) using red, I am evading tax. So I would never do that. I will just sit at home in the snow reading HMRC papers on use of this and that and do nothing.

What I wish is that these local govt. cretins would just cut people a break and let people get on with good deeds without fear of confiscation or fine as in the story above. They want whacking out.

 

[Cowabunga]

You are correct the subsidy also can involve construction, forestry and fisheries. Still a subsidy though to the few who receive it.
Don’t think my plumber or electrician can use it, or are you pretending it is otherwise only used for use off the public highway and therefore should be immune from road duty?

It's not a subsidy. Get that into your head. It is a tax not applied because the vehicles do not use the roads predominantly. If it was a subsidy, then all lower tax rates, including income tax, heating oil for domestic use and so on and so forth should also be classed as subsidies, which is absurd, even ludicrous.

 

[Cowabunga]

Haulage fridges run on red. The prime mover must be on white though.

That's absolutely correct. And no, fridge trailers do NOT have subsidised fuel. It is just not taxed at the higher rate.
WTF is it about people that they cannot get this into their heads. They have been indoctrinated into thinking that they are subsidised even when they are patently not.

 

[Pasty]

Agree, it's completely not a subsidy. What annoys me is that in rural areas when things get tough, people are acting illegally by just helping out at their own expense in terms of time, machinery and fuel etc. Something needs doing about that.

 

[digger64]

It's not a subsidy. Get that into your head. It is a tax not applied because the vehicles do not use the roads predominantly. If it was a subsidy, then all lower tax rates, including income tax, heating oil for domestic use and so on and so forth should also be classed as subsidies, which is absurd, even ludicrous.

Originally I think it was more to with a cheap food policy

 

[stewart]

Haulage fridges run on red. The prime mover must be on white though.

That is why white is referred to as DERV
Diesel Engine Road Vehicle