UK going back to work

[robs1]

But do they? I read some interesting discussions last year predicting that AI and robotics would take away the paid employment of 80% of the world's population over the next 50 years and that the whole basis of economics would have to change as a result. That's the logical conclusion of the path we were on.

They said that in the 70's hasn't happened yet, highest number of employed ever in the UK despite automation. Yes lots of jobs have disappeared but have been replaced by others, mainly in service industries social care is the huge growth area with the baby boomers getting old. What we need is to pay more for these jobs and value them more, who does more good in the world, looking after the infirm or selling insurances etc in a swanky office yet which earns far more, this must change,

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

who does more good in the world, looking after the infirm or selling insurances etc in a swanky office yet which earns far more, this must change,

Now that I do agree with

 

[Hindsight]

Now that I do agree with

Just had a look through the posts since I looked a few days ago. I see the comment from Robs1 to which you have replied. On a moral front I concur.

But am interested to know how you various posters advocating such a fundamental change in payment reward for employment to happen. How and why will the market start to pay carers significantly more compared to, for example, folk selling insurance. I am intrigued.

 

[robs1]

Just had a look through the posts since I looked a few days ago. I see the comment from Robs1 to which you have replied. On a moral front I concur.

But am interested to know how you various posters advocating such a fundamental change in payment reward for employment to happen. How and why will the market start to pay carers significantly more compared to, for example, folk selling insurance. I am intrigued.

It wont be easy as the snouts will be fighting to stay in the trough, it will take time to change peoples attitude but maybe now is the chance to start, maybe Boris could be the man to start ir, he is on the left side of the Tories, who knows he might be the best pm we ever have, at least he is a glass half full person and leads from the front, he has a chance but must grab it

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Just had a look through the posts since I looked a few days ago. I see the comment from Robs1 to which you have replied. On a moral front I concur.

But am interested to know how you various posters advocating such a fundamental change in payment reward for employment to happen. How and why will the market start to pay carers significantly more compared to, for example, folk selling insurance. I am intrigued.

It's all down to what we, the public, choose to value. Personally I'd be quite happy for every professional football team to collapse into ruin and those who pay large (in my view) sums to see them use that money instead to pay for quality social care (just one small example). I suspect most British males would consider that heresy. The British 1966 World Cup team were paid average man's wages after all!

Some young females happily spend over £500 each month on cosmetics. Again that could be redirected. I know VERY few women who NEED makeup except in their own minds.

Mainstream entertainers?

Most sales staff?

Plenty of other examples where society chooses to reward people far above what real benefit they bring to society.

These are all examples of things we have been manipulated into placing high value on by marketing psychologists.

 

[Lowland1]

The biggest issue is the increase from 1.5 billion to 7 billion humans in 100 years. The issues you describe are much easier with less people.

It's quite possible that a serious near future pandemic (unlike Covid 19 that has moderate infectivity and low mortality) will deal with that issue for us. One of the leading epidemiologists recently wrote that it's not Covid 19 keeping him awake, it's something like "Mebola" (infectivity of measles and mortality of Ebola). The only really alarming thing about this virus is that it's infectious before symptoms show. If one of the REALLY deadly viruses learns that tick we could easily return to a global population of 500 million or less!

We have a virus at present thats taking out a small percentage of the highest consumers of the worlds resources and we have abject panic and terror. Because of this and because the rich nations can afford it the world is on hold and now some people are sitting back and saying isn't this great no cars , no people , aeroplanes etc and it is as long as we know it's just for a short while but the people in the third world live off your table scraps whether their making t shirts in bangladesh or picking flowers in Kenya and they need a thriving western economy which will include tourism and air travel. If we don't get back on track people are going to find themselves paying £50 for a t shirt in Primark and the migrant crisis well multiply that by 100 and whilst there's 7 billion people on the planet one billion of them are using 90 percent plus of the resources.

 

[Hindsight]

It's all down to what we, the public, choose to value. Personally I'd be quite happy for every professional football team to collapse into ruin and those who pay large (in my view) sums to see them use that money instead to pay for quality social care (just one small example). I suspect most British males would consider that heresy. The British 1966 World Cup team were paid average man's wages after all!

Some young females happily spend over £500 each month on cosmetics. Again that could be redirected. I know VERY few women who NEED makeup except in their own minds.

Mainstream entertainers?

Most sales staff?

Plenty of other examples where society chooses to reward people far above what real benefit they bring to society.

These are all examples of things we have been manipulated into placing high value on by marketing psychologists.

I welcome your candour. In many respects I subscribe to your moral outrage at the modern world. And shall watch to see if what you suggest comes to pass. I will say though I am doubtful. A life in an Amish community might suit you! (said as a tease).

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

We have a virus at present thats taking out a small percentage of the highest consumers of the worlds resources and we have abject panic and terror. Because of this and because the rich nations can afford it the world is on hold and now some people are sitting back and saying isn't this great no cars , no people , aeroplanes etc and it is as long as we know it's just for a short while but the people in the third world live off your table scraps whether their making t shirts in bangladesh or picking flowers in Kenya and they need a thriving western economy which will include tourism and air travel. If we don't get back on track people are going to find themselves paying £50 for a t shirt in Primark and the migrant crisis well multiply that by 100 and whilst there's 7 billion people on the planet one billion of them are using 90 percent plus of the resources.

Quite true. It's generally not the 3rd world that doing the damage.

Oh, and a decent quality T shirt SHOULD be £50, whoever is selling it!

Most of our clothing is currently made from oil!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I welcome your candour. In many respects I subscribe to your moral outrage at the modern world. And shall watch to see if what you suggest comes to pass. I will say though I am doubtful. A life in an Amish community might suit you! (said as a tease).

I openly admit I am struggling with my changing world view. That doesn't mean we should just go back to raping the planet until our whole ecosystem collapses.

We CAN do things differently if we want to.

 

[Hindsight]

It wont be easy as the snouts will be fighting to stay in the trough, it will take time to change peoples attitude but maybe now is the chance to start, maybe Boris could be the man to start ir, he is on the left side of the Tories, who knows he might be the best pm we ever have, at least he is a glass half full person and leads from the front, he has a chance but must grab it

Will be interesting to see how society changes as a result of CV19. The focus currently, understandably is on the medical and carers profession. And the press again understandably have picked up on level of danger faced and reward. I wait again a few months to see how this evolves into action and policy. Are we going to see government backed higher minimum wages for those professions. In which case the current staff may find themselves out of work when others in society with 'better qualifications' seek out what become higher paid employment. Now that would be interesting outcome. Regards.

 

[Hindsight]

We have a virus at present thats taking out a small percentage of the highest consumers of the worlds resources and we have abject panic and terror. Because of this and because the rich nations can afford it the world is on hold and now some people are sitting back and saying isn't this great no cars , no people , aeroplanes etc and it is as long as we know it's just for a short while but the people in the third world live off your table scraps whether their making t shirts in bangladesh or picking flowers in Kenya and they need a thriving western economy which will include tourism and air travel. If we don't get back on track people are going to find themselves paying £50 for a t shirt in Primark and the migrant crisis well multiply that by 100 and whilst there's 7 billion people on the planet one billion of them are using 90 percent plus of the resources.

The post of the year.

Ebola was something that happened in Africa - well you know why don't you - they eat 'funny food'! Covid 19 is something affecting the developed nations - and this is not how things should be.

Are you still able to sell crops to Europe? getting air cargo? Although we will never meet, except in anonymous posts on here, I have been concerned for the welfare of your workers through this. I looked at flight radar last night around midnight and there were a few air cargo planes in European airspace and a couple over Africa.

Regards.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Ebola was something that happened in Africa - well you know why don't you - they eat 'funny food'! Covid 19 is something affecting the developed nations - and this is not how things should be.

If Covid 19 has proved anything it is the huge risks of such a mobile population these days. If Ebola had been infectious days before symptoms showed then it too would have spread across the world.

 

[Hindsight]

Quite true. It's generally not the 3rd world that doing the damage.

Oh, and a decent quality T shirt SHOULD be £50, whoever is selling it!

Most of our clothing is currently made from oil!

Indeed and today there are T shirts that are £50 and more - they happen to have a fancy brand name. But the retail price does not mean the manufacturer in Bangladesh gets any more than for the £3 T shirt out of Primark. No it just means the retail and distribution chain takes a higher margin at each stage, thus facilitating greater reward for brand management and product placement. Those beneficiaries then pay themselves which allows them to fly around the world on holiday, or buying Kenyam flowers (to bring Lowland into this debate) enjoying the financial result of their business acumen.

 

[Hindsight]

If Covid 19 has proved anything it is the huge risks of such a mobile population these days. If Ebola had been infectious days before symptoms showed then it too would have spread across the world.

Yes, but the Ebola virus is to effective at killing its host and insufficiently infectious, so can be contained. Covid19 seems to be a better fit with similarities to SARS/MERS and greater infectivity. Fascinating stuff.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Indeed and today there are T shirts that are £50 and more - they happen to have a fancy brand name. But the retail price does not mean the manufacturer in Bangladesh gets any more than for the £ T short out of Primark. No it just means the retail and distribution chain takes a higher margin at each stage, thus facilitating greater reward for brand management and product placement. Those beneficiaries then pay themselves which allows them to fly around the world on holiday, or buying Kenyam flowers (to bring Lowland into this debate) enjoying the financial result of their business acumen.

Very true but that's not what I meant. That profiteering is what got us here. I was meaning that the true costs of the garment were paid and the effort fully rewarded at each stage of the process.

We have blindly "offshored" all of the damaging impacts of how we choose to live.

 

[Ffarmwr bach]

Too late locking down. Too soon un-locking. .

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237393224714481667

 

[farmerm]

Hmmm - true enough, but most of the early ones were not looking for mere recreation

It is a very poor man whos can afford neither time or resources for recreation.

 

[Lowland1]

The post of the year.

Ebola was something that happened in Africa - well you know why don't you - they eat 'funny food'! Covid 19 is something affecting the developed nations - and this is not how things should be.

Are you still able to sell crops to Europe? getting air cargo? Although we will never meet, except in anonymous posts on here, I have been concerned for the welfare of your workers through this. I looked at flight radar last night around midnight and there were a few air cargo planes in European airspace and a couple over Africa.

Regards.

[QUOTE="Hindsight, post: 6912444, memb
[/QUOTE]
We are still working the beginning of April was tough as freight prices doubled and demand went down then over last fortnight we have had 270 mm of rain against a yearly average of 600mm coupled with a 7pm to 5 am curfew and social distancing rules that make transporting staff a bit of a nightmare so things have been a bit fraught. Now i need to get to England to make sure my kids have not found their 80 year old grandfather a smart care home as I hear there are lots of vacancies now.

 

[Steevo]

Too late locking down. Too soon un-locking. .

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237393224714481667

Love the way some people bring things back and reinvent them for today's situation.

 

[brigadoon]

Maybe we will move to a future economic model where folk live less pressured lives and can afford to take a year traveling allowing them to do it by ship?


True, but didn't have modern forecasts, gps, depth sounders, construction methods, survival kit etc.

I suspect that aviation will be saved for truly essential use in future (things like rapid humanitarian aid delivery, search and rescue, very high value time critical freight etc).

OT I know but it would be interesting indeed to see the Facebook posts from a bunch of tourists on a windjammer being driven hard to make a passage in the southern ocean - somehow I think a lot of them would be off at the first port and flying home.