UK sinking under an ocean of debts?

Boomerang

Member
There seems to be no logic or sanity in the way things work.
Tesla for instance, in its 17 year existence 2021 is the FIRST year it actually made a full years profit, so NO profits in 17 years yet no problem in getting finance from somewhere, no idea why any one would keep investing (gambling) . And now it's "worth" more than toyota, trillions. How is this possible. Musk has sold 21 billion worth of shares . That's a 21 billion payout from a company that's never made a profit. Absolute insanity. he must be an incredible marketing , bulls**t merchant .
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
thats the big big difference between the oil rich arab states and us, they have massive cash surpluses that can be wasted on buying a premier football team or owning 500 race horses, while their neighbouring arab states , in poverty, drought, civil war, and is appealing to us western countries for money , help? the biggest discrace in the world are countries that have massive cash, trade surpluses due to oil, gas, etc, but the mass of the population live in poverty, dont benifit from their countries wealth, its wealth being in the hands of the few?
Like it was here in victorian times , wealthy land and mine owners with so much cash they didnt know what to spend it on next ,all sorts of follies around here from those days (now owned by NT) , while the workforce had some crumbs off the table and ended up in a workhouse if anything went wrong , child death at 30% +and lucky to see 60 , we arnt that far away from the arabs just a few years
 

Drillman

Member
Mixed Farmer
I wonder what the consequence, good or bad, would be if by a stroke of the delete key on a computer somewhere, all private and world debt was cancelled and returned to zero? A big re-boot.
Well if that’s gonna happen will someone let me know first so I can go borrow a bit more😂😂😂
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
There seems to be no logic or sanity in the way things work.
Tesla for instance, in its 17 year existence 2021 is the FIRST year it actually made a full years profit, so NO profits in 17 years yet no problem in getting finance from somewhere, no idea why any one would keep investing (gambling) . And now it's "worth" more than toyota, trillions. How is this possible. Musk has sold 21 billion worth of shares . That's a 21 billion payout from a company that's never made a profit. Absolute insanity. he must be an incredible marketing , bulls**t merchant .
Its called investment, tsking the long term view
Something totally foreign to the uk shortsighted mentality
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
There seems to be no logic or sanity in the way things work.
Tesla for instance, in its 17 year existence 2021 is the FIRST year it actually made a full years profit, so NO profits in 17 years yet no problem in getting finance from somewhere, no idea why any one would keep investing (gambling) . And now it's "worth" more than toyota, trillions. How is this possible. Musk has sold 21 billion worth of shares . That's a 21 billion payout from a company that's never made a profit. Absolute insanity. he must be an incredible marketing , bulls**t merchant .
Michael burry (predicted the subprime mortgage crisis) gave up his large short position on Tesla as he believed that these companies no longer behave according to traditional indicators. How Tesla could be worth more than Toyota is an absolute mystery.
 
Michael burry (predicted the subprime mortgage crisis) gave up his large short position on Tesla as he believed that these companies no longer behave according to traditional indicators. How Tesla could be worth more than Toyota is an absolute mystery.

Tesla's products are carp. There is no way they are worth more than Toyota. The stock market value of a company is near irrelevant these days.
 
There seems to be no logic or sanity in the way things work.
Tesla for instance, in its 17 year existence 2021 is the FIRST year it actually made a full years profit, so NO profits in 17 years yet no problem in getting finance from somewhere, no idea why any one would keep investing (gambling) . And now it's "worth" more than toyota, trillions. How is this possible. Musk has sold 21 billion worth of shares . That's a 21 billion payout from a company that's never made a profit. Absolute insanity. he must be an incredible marketing , bulls**t merchant .

That is America all over though, investors will throw money at someone who they think has the next bright idea. In reality, making a car is a serious business- most engineers will tell you that just designing the doors on a vehicle can take months. Now consider drive by noise, emissions, NVH, suspension, etc etc etc you name it and you realise why it is years between new models being launched.

Tesla's products include what seems to be the latest tech but in reality their build quality is terrible. It won't be long before Toyota and the rest have wide ranges of fully electric cars and are kicking Tesla's arsh in volume terms. There isn't much else to engineer in- batteries and motors are established technologies which are already mature.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
That is America all over though, investors will throw money at someone who they think has the next bright idea. In reality, making a car is a serious business- most engineers will tell you that just designing the doors on a vehicle can take months. Now consider drive by noise, emissions, NVH, suspension, etc etc etc you name it and you realise why it is years between new models being launched.

Tesla's products include what seems to be the latest tech but in reality their build quality is terrible. It won't be long before Toyota and the rest have wide ranges of fully electric cars and are kicking Tesla's arsh in volume terms. There isn't much else to engineer in- batteries and motors are established technologies which are already mature.
Wouldn't say EV batteries and motors are mature tech yet, but I have no doubt that Toyota will be outproducing Tesla if and when EVs become mainstream globally. The western world is only part of the global vehicle market.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
As they stand, motors and batteries are mature technology- nothing revolutionary has changed in recent years and it is all sat on the shelf.
Industrial motors (brushed and synchronous) and batteries yes, but not when it comes to li-ion and li-po etc batteries and brushless motors, then add in regenerative braking and all the heat pumps which EVs will likely have soon. It's still advancing fast, hence every new generation of EVs or even cordless power tools is a significant advancement from the last.
 

traadilooar

Member
Location
Isle of Man
I have doubts that much of musks investment comes from cars or even legit spacex, the yanks deny they have hypersonic missiles etc, but I would think they have at least got them or better and the black budget money for these projects is pumped into engineering companies like musks to design and build them.
 

bluebell

Member
thats true, its only really since the war that the vast majority of the population have had a reasonable standard of living? rising year on year? One thing to mention that happened in victorian britian was that some large employers, like the chocolate makers such as cadburys, frys, and others, who correct me if im wrong were all quakers? cared about there workers, built model villages for their employees? Also another thing all these people who today like to try to distroy our past and proud history, we, the UK established created, amongst others the boy scout movement, salvation army, and charities like the Brooke Horse, RSPCA, that have become worldwide movements that today do a tremendous amount of good, the principles of helping others, being good citizans etc?
 

britishblue

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Scottish Borders
The best explanation of Tesla share price I have read is that it has no relation to the selling of EV's. It has become a store of wealth like Bitcoin. I couldn't agree more with that assessment!
 

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
That is America all over though, investors will throw money at someone who they think has the next bright idea. In reality, making a car is a serious business- most engineers will tell you that just designing the doors on a vehicle can take months. Now consider drive by noise, emissions, NVH, suspension, etc etc etc you name it and you realise why it is years between new models being launched.

Tesla's products include what seems to be the latest tech but in reality their build quality is terrible. It won't be long before Toyota and the rest have wide ranges of fully electric cars and are kicking Tesla's arsh in volume terms. There isn't much else to engineer in- batteries and motors are established technologies which are already mature.
Does anyone truly believe Musk cashed in billions of dollars of shares just because he wanted to be seen to pay taxes or was it simply so he could cash in without spooking the market before true reality finally hits home.
 

nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
thats true, its only really since the war that the vast majority of the population have had a reasonable standard of living? rising year on year? One thing to mention that happened in victorian britian was that some large employers, like the chocolate makers such as cadburys, frys, and others, who correct me if im wrong were all quakers? cared about there workers, built model villages for their employees? Also another thing all these people who today like to try to distroy our past and proud history, we, the UK established created, amongst others the boy scout movement, salvation army, and charities like the Brooke Horse, RSPCA, that have become worldwide movements that today do a tremendous amount of good, the principles of helping others, being good citizans etc?
I remember in early 70s visiting huge chocolate factory in Norwich which was Caleys and then Macintosh and even then there was a pretty much work and care for life going on with in house doctors and dentists etc.unfortuantly now a huge mall
nick...
 

Dave645

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
N Lincs
When debt triggers crashes its only the essentials that maintain worth, food, water, and energy.
Does anyone truly believe Musk cashed in billions of dollars of shares just because he wanted to be seen to pay taxes or was it simply so he could cash in without spooking the market before true reality finally hits home.
This debt crisis is diffrent to the stock market crash in 2007, as others have said it’s governments debt, not the banks, the banks were folding that would have crashed the whole system, if a banks holds your house under a mortgage then in fact they own it so if the bank goes bust then your home can be pulled in to cover the debt, so it’s sold to repay the mortgage you owed, you can see how that different from the government owes more money.
the spiral the banks going bust was causing is not the same as governments extending borrowing.

As for musk, He did it, because he had stock options that were ending if he didn’t use them he lost them, so he used them, that triggered very large tax bills so to cover that income, he sold some of the shares he holds about 20%, of his total that he received from his stock options and personal holdings, to cover the tax.
the impression I get is he only sold as many as he needed too, the trades he did were watched and the trade understood he needed to sell 20% to cover his tax bill, and he only sold 20%. Most analysts still bet on the stock going up in value.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.7%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 64 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.2%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,287
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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